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>not very ignored
Did you miss the beginning where he was saving retired Yakuza's by helping them find new jobs? Right before a smear campaign destroyed his efforts?
He also breaks out of jail on his own even though Kiryu does end up providing some much needed assistance.
He saves Tomi's life by giving him a chance to redeem himself after putting his (Ichiban's) life on the line. I'd say that that's solving a problem. He also helps rescue Chitose from the Barracudas.
Neither do any of the other characters, for that matter. If Ichiban hadn't arrived and set things in motion nothing would have changed. The Daidoji(?) faction, Kiryu's group, even admits that Ichiban and his group are their best leads. Not to mention every other faction in Hawaii is banking on Ichiban and co. figuring things out since they can't seem to solve things on their own.
Chitose would have also either been killed or taken back to her family. Tomi would have continued being essentially a slave. Basically, everyone would have been screwed without Ichi's involvement.
Are you seriously upset about dating shenanigans? Lol. I personally didn't mind that but you do you.
I'll give you this one, that was stupid.
Isn't solving problems by punching people the main problem-solving approach in every Yakuza game? And he does solve adult problems albeit with a team.
It's also part of the point with Ichiban's character: his relentless optimism inspires people to want to join him and help him out. If you wanted a gritty, lone wolf protagonist who solves all of his problems on his own you're playing the wrong game.
Edit: you're also ignoring all of the side-missions, which Ichiban usually engages on his own. Many of those can be silly but some deal with adult problems, like the single-mom who is being coerced by a cop to prostitute herself. In that mission Ichiban steps in and knocks some sense into the cop in the traditional Yakuza game fashion, allowing the mom to turn herself in and begin to fix her life.
We weren't talking about the other characters in the game now were we? We were talking about Ichiban. We can talk about other characters when they are the subject in question. Kasuga is the supposed leader. The next legend in the making. The new Dragon.
For the purposes of the main story of this game, Ichiban just happens to the son of the person that they are looking for and that's why he is the best lead for finding her. I am not sure you can give him credit for "being born from the right person" as solving an adult problem. He didn't "solve" that by just happening to have been birthed by Akane.
Similarly, in the examples you mentioned of Tomi and Chitose, a bit of context.
He'd have never found Chitose in the first place if not for Eiji, who was scamming him the entire time using him as a hunting lure...because he lost the envelope. Later, he needed Kiryu and Tomi to point out that Chitose lied to him. Tomi in the same scene has to mention when Ichi is aghast that the timeline Chitose gave him doesn't line up "This would be the same woman who drugged you and left you naked?"
Ichi isn't smart enough to question, even after Chitose scams him, the rest of her story without Kiryu and Tomi around to point out the blindingly obvious that she may not have been completely straight with him.
In every conversation in the game that I can remember, it is OTHER PEOPLE who come up with the ideas on how to try and track Akane down. Where and how to look for Akane always comes from the people around Kasuga and he goes along with.
Most of the other examples you list involve punching people. NOT using his BRAIN to solve any problems.
As dumb, but good hearted muscle, Ichiban is fine. But any situation that requires him to think he's helpless in. You listed side quests as things he helps other people with. Well, here's another example from there of how incapable Ichiban is of learning from ANY of his mistakes or improving in the thinking department.
He gets his drink spiked by a SECOND pretty woman days after his experience with Chitose. One would think that waking up naked, without all of his things, alone on a beach, landing in prison, and almost spending the rest of his natural life there pinned for crimes he didn't do might make him a TEENSY bit more cautious in this very narrow, specific area. This is, btw, a side mission that you brought up. (Most of the other side missions are silly and just involve things happening around him that he randomly stumbles across because that is how Yakuza games are.)
But DAYS after the Chitose incident he falls for an identical scam AGAIN. In the same damned game. Because he can't really function without adult supervision since he's a child in a man's body.
Moving on, it isn't "dating shenanigans" it is demonstrating how capable he is of handling his own life as a functioning adult.
Yes, it is played for laughs, but it is a perfect example of how he is NOT CAPABLE of solving adult problems. Just like with the drink spiking thing, fast forward to the end of the game and despite all of the coaching and help he screws it up with Saeko at the end yet again. And in nearly the exact same way...by having zero chill and going TO BIG and TO FAST. Once again, he learned nothing.
Again, Ichiban is a child in a man's body. I never said that his innocence, good heart and naivete doesn't have some redeeming qualities. But he isn't someone you can actually take seriously, particularly as a leader, since he has both zero gravitas and zero brains.
Don't take that last part from me. ALL of his FRIENDS spend most of the game pointing out how stupid he is. They basically exhaust the thesaurus coming up with different words for "stupid" when describing him. The very last thing any of his best friends say about him in the very last scene they are together in is, and I quote, "You can't fix stupid."
There is something to be said that his charisma and good heart help create the support structure around him that he needs and that's a point in his favor. But he's far from an adult capable of solving his own issues. This doesn't make him worthless as a protagonist. There is a place for this archetype and some people may like it. (As you obviously do.)
For me, a little Ichiban goes a long, long, LOOOONG way and I really hope that the next game is his last one. Or, better yet, they reroll the series protagonist and move away from the "Scooby Gang" approach. It was fine as a palette cleanser after so long with Kiryu in the lead. He was a breath of fresh air.
But I was really hoping that they'd give him some room to grow and develop. Become more of a guy that I can take halfway seriously. Instead they took his traits from the first game and turned them up to 11.
How often did I sit and cry playing "the old" (7 included) games on my PC. I laughed so often. Once I fell off my chair laughing ( no kidding!). The side stories in this game are shallow and boring. I've never been so bored in a Yakuza game. If the game hadn't been so expensive, I wouldn't be playing it. I also want to know what will happen to Kiryu. But I don't have fun and excitement like in the old games in this game.
Somehow I'm dragging myself through the game.
But if your issue is with characters who can't solve their own problems you should hate every character in the game since none of them are capable of solving their own problems.
That's a core theme for Yakuza 7 and 8: you can't solve your problems on your own.
Which adult problem are you referring to? I never mentioned that Akane was exclusively Ichiban's problem to solve. Just that everyone depends on him and his gang to solve it.
If you're gonna get to specifics, though, Chitose is the one who comes up with the idea to record a video with Ichiban revealing his identity but Ichiban basically improvises the whole script on his own. Then, when people point out that the video idea was reckless, Ichiban points out that while he was hopeful that Akane would react he was actually planning on using the video to discover who else was searching for Akane.
Even Kiryu is impressed by Ichiban's double-plan with the video. Even though, again, it was originally Chitose's idea.
My point is that despite Ichiban's stupidity leading him into problems, it's also his charisma, honesty, and sincerity that brings people to him. That's why Tomi ends up trusting him and why Chitose chooses not to lead them into Dwight's trap.
Just as his personality causes him problems so does it provide solutions. If you hate him for his stupidity it's your prerogative. I can also appreciate him for his relentless optimism and genuineness even as I acknowledge he's not very bright.
I have nothing else to add beyond what I said above. Just as he fell into the same trap again, so did he save that woman's life.
I haven't beaten the game yet so I can't speak to the ending. I can say that I don't connect him being a useless romantic with not being a functional adult. You again ignore the beginning of the game with him working a 9-5 job helping former Yakuza and random people find jobs. Just because he sucks at romance doesn't mean he can't lead a good, fulfilling life.
I think you're also ignoring all the conversations where he speak wisely and seriously and cherry-pick conversations and moments where he's point-blank stupid. At least I remember many moments either in side-missions or drink links where people appreciate Ichiban's perspective and wisdom. But if that's what you wanna latch on to, go for it.
Frankly I think if more people were like Ichiban the world would be a better place. That's why I like him as a character. He also reminds me of Ted Lasso. A guy who is not very bright, but has a good heart and people can't help but root for him even as they know he can easily be taken advantage of.
Ok, do you expect the average adult to deal with mafias, gangs, insane criminals, finding long lost relatives, etc. on their own? Is that part of "a capable adult solving his own issues"?
Despite being ♥♥♥♥♥♥ at romance (which, to be honest, can apply to many guys in this day and age. Especially those who spend most of their time online), he was shown to be capable of leading a pretty respectable life. It was only when his life was turned upside down and that he was given a new mission that things got crazy for him and he made stupid mistakes that required other people to solve.
We can agree to disagree here since I enjoy his character immensely. I also appreciate that while he has a stupid side he is also capable of being wise and mature. I won't disagree that he could stand to grow more, but at the end of the day his flaws are miniscule compared to his virtues in my eyes.
I'm aware it is a core theme of those two games. They hammer it home so relentlessly that it is utterly impossible to miss. Even Ichiban would pick it up. ;)
But Ichi is the worst at it by far.
I will grant that Ichi improvised the script well and came up with the twist which was a nice touch on his part. Although, again, the original idea came from somewhere else. (From Eiji instead of Chitose for all we know.)
The adult problem of being able to go ten steps without someone taking advantage of him or manipulating him or scamming him would be a good start on his adult problems. As I pointed out, within HOURS of him flying to Hawaii, three different people do it.
I did say that it had its redeeming qualities, but it is possible to have the strengths of it without the weaknesses of blind faith, blind trust, blind, basically, ignorance. As Tomi himself pointed out, if Chitose had fessed up her role sooner, two people would not have been killed and Lani wouldn't have been taken the second time. Both Eiji and Chitose are in the Daidoji hideout specifically because Ichiban vouched for them both. The deaths that resulted are entirely his fault.
So if you're going to give him credit for his sincerity and trusting nature swaying Tomi and Chitose eventually, you also have to take note the troubles that it caused including peoples' lives.
And in all honesty, it should have caused LANI'S DEATH AS WELL. I can't think of any reason why Bryce needed her shipped off to his island instead of killed and dumped somewhere aside from blatant plot armor. She should have been LOOONG dead by the time the gang found her a SECOND time let alone the THIRD time they find her. If there is some particular reason why Bryce needs her on Special Island to kill her the game doesn't exactly make it clear.
I dislike him more from the fact that the writers never show him learning from these sorts of things and GROWING as a character than for the fact these things happen to begin with. They're building him up as a LEGEND. The NEXT Legend. The successor of Kiryu himself.
But it is just a miscasting IMO because Kiryu also had many of the same traits Ichi has. His belief in the goodness of people, a kind heart, a willingness to give second chances, charisma, etc...but not BLINDINGLY so.
Ichiban has spent two whole games going BACKWARDS on the emotional development scale. Getting more and more trusting despite betrayal after betrayal, some with very bad consequences.
I can't think of many examples where he speaks wisely and seriously. I know that in the drink links, the writers have the other characters around Ichiban treat him like some wise sage, and I really don't understand why. In most of the rest of the game, he just kind of wanders around helplessly falling into one bad situation after another and most of them are of his own making.
Oh I don't disagree with you here. At no point have I ever questioned whether he is a NICE guy. I just question how they are building him up as some sort of LEADER type guy. A legend in the making. etc. For every example you list, such as how Chitose chose NOT to lead the party into Dwight's trap, I see that as an example of him just being outrageously lucky and having plot armor.
Because most people AREN'T like Ichiban in the world. As I pointed out earlier with the two deaths in this game that are directly caused by his trusting nature, he could have very easily have "lead" more people to their deaths as a result of it.
There's nothing wrong with a trusting nature and a nice guy attitude...except when taken to ABSURD, even cartoonish, extremes.
It is fine if we agree to disagree. I suspect we'll never see quite eye to eye here. From my perspective, he could have had all of the same virtues...WITHOUT the astonishing naivete that never seems to improve (DESPITE EXPERIENCES THAT HE SHOULD LEARN FROM), his utter cluelessness, and overwhelming childishness.
I think like I said earlier, my biggest issue with Ichiban is that he never, ever learns from any of the things that happen to him. And never suffers any real direct consequences of not learning either.
And that makes him either the biggest moron in the world...or just a badly written, one-dimensional/one-note character.
I liked him better in the first game when they show him actually losing his temper and almost beating a guy to death before Kiryu steps in and stops him because it shows him as a REAL PERSON. An actual HUMAN BEING with multiple dimensions and not just kinda a walking joke/cartoon character.
That is literally every single Yakuza game, dude.
I could spend more of my time debating each point, but it's clear after the past few exchanges that we're not going to see eye-to-eye. To me he is an interesting, well-rounded character and I appreciate the fact that he has glaring weaknesses and glaring strengths. I mean, that's what makes round characters round. Nobody likes a Gary Stu who has little to no flaws.
Not to mention his characterization is aligned with the game's humor and plot; as Ichiban's mistakes move the plot forward, cause people to follow him, and creates new conflicts just as it solves them. But I digress.
To me Ichiban represents an idealized adult who can live happily, dream big, and pursue his goals ferociously without lying to himself or others. It's the kind of person, I think, everyone could be if they spent more time being honest with themselves and others and having no inhibitions in pursuing their dreams.
I understand your point of view and you are entitled to your opinion, but I disagree with it. I hope that since the game sold well and has received mostly positive reviews from critics+players and the like that we'll see sequels following his story. At the very least a third game that closes out his chapter definitively.
That's fine. I appreciate the discussion. I'll let you have the final word on it. Have a nice rest of your evening!