Sujimancer - Weakest class in the game???

[MINUANO GAMING]

My Ichiban is currently lvl 45, I just finished gathering all the Kiwami Sujimon and beating the Divine League, so I thought I'd take Sujimancer out for a spin and... it's horrible???

My breath attacks are doing roughly 200 damage with all the Kiwami Sujimon at lvl 50, 999

Just for comparison, the weakest water attack from my maid does 500+, which is more than double my frost breath.

Ichiban is my strongest character in the Hero class, bat breaker usually does 600+ and knockout combo can easily hit for 1200+, which is how I managed to beat the Kiwami Sujimon at lvl 40.

Am I doing something wrong here or is the scaling broken? Surely the damage shouldn't be this low, right?

[Homebrew]

I'm level 55 on average and you're 100% on point; the Sujimancer absolutely sucks. It's basically a mage with extra steps and less damage. And to be clear, I've completely cleared the Sujimon minigame and I have 4 Kiwami (sp) Sujimon that are stupidly overpowered, and it still sucks.

I think LOD:IW just built a game that's so massive they didn't actually have time to balance the 100 intricate systems included and it shows. This class absolutely sucks ass.

[parent child bowl]

Being Sujimancer is bad, leveling it for inheritance is good.

[MINUANO GAMING]

Originally posted by parent child bowl:

Being Sujimancer is bad, leveling it for inheritance is good.

Here's the thing: you can't inherit Sujimon skills. Only way to use it is by being the Sujimancer, and the damage is at best 40% of what other mages do.

[MINUANO GAMING]

Okay, so I've done some testing and apparently the culprit for the Sujimancer's obscenely low damage is his "hands" weapon.

Classes that don't use weapons and hands instead scale with levels, so they're somewhat comparable although a little weaker than weapons. Sujimancer's hands don't scale at all, so you do 50 damage basic attacks left and right.

That wouldn't be a problem if his spells were crazy strong to go with it, buuuut...

Most mages also scale with their weapons magic stat. Sujimancer is **SUPPOSED TO** scale with their Sujimon, but in truth the difference is minimal.

Using Kiwami blue (strongest frost sujimon) and frost breath on a lvl 41 enemy, Sujimancer did a little over 300 damage.

Switching my level 50 Kiwami Blue with a level 1 Rebel Yeller, so going from the very best frost Sujimon can offer to the very weakest, the difference in damage on the same enemy is a little over 100 lol

To be specific, level 1 Rebel Yeller's Frost Breath hit for 191 damage. Going from one extreme to another, at best you'll see a 30ish% damage increase from how the class starts off.

I don't think I have to say that this is not adequate for endgame, or hell, even mid game content

They need to have Sujimancer's hand scale with levels or buff the effect sujimons have in your damage output by at least 10x, cause at this point the class is unusuable.

You can immediately tell it's the magic scaling that's not working, because if you get a geodancer and buff Sujimancer's magic 3x, it starts doing what I would consider "normal damage" for other mages

[armycat23]

Originally posted by MINUANO GAMING:

Okay, so I've done some testing and apparently the culprit for the Sujimancer's obscenely low damage is his "hands" weapon.

Classes that don't use weapons and hands instead scale with levels, so they're somewhat comparable although a little weaker than weapons. Sujimancer's hands don't scale at all, so you do 50 damage basic attacks left and right.

That wouldn't be a problem if his spells were crazy strong to go with it, buuuut...

Most mages also scale with their weapons magic stat. Sujimancer is **SUPPOSED TO** scale with their Sujimon, but in truth the difference is minimal.

Using Kiwami blue (strongest frost sujimon) and frost breath on a lvl 41 enemy, Sujimancer did a little over 300 damage.

Switching my level 50 Kiwami Blue with a level 1 Rebel Yeller, so going from the very best frost Sujimon can offer to the very weakest, the difference in damage on the same enemy is a little over 100 lol

To be specific, level 1 Rebel Yeller's Frost Breath hit for 191 damage. Going from one extreme to another, at best you'll see a 30ish% damage increase from how the class starts off.

I don't think I have to say that this is not adequate for endgame, or hell, even mid game content

They need to have Sujimancer's hand scale with levels or buff the effect sujimons have in your damage output by at least 10x, cause at this point the class is unusuable.

You can immediately tell it's the magic scaling that's not working, because if you get a geodancer and buff Sujimancer's magic 3x, it starts doing what I would consider "normal damage" for other mages

This seems to be the right answer. My ichiban was level 45 with a sujimancer rank of 29. I had all the sujimon I needed.

Yet.....when I was on the 3rd level for the Haunted dungeon in Hawaii I could tell ichiban was clearly the 3rd best character in my party for attacks. Only my main healer, a hybrid housekeeper/idol, was worse.

I changed Ichiban back to hero....got a 6 star electric bat from Julie which I enhanced further....and I'm mowing enemies down.

Plus, if you put the soul capture skill from the pryodancer onto hero....which attacks and heals at the same time....you've got a beast.

[armycat23]

Originally posted by parent child bowl:

Being Sujimancer is bad, leveling it for inheritance is good.

To add what another poster said....you can't transfer sujimancer skills....

He's not even just talking about the special skills.....you can't transfer ANY skills, even minor skills, that you learn as a sujimancer.

Wbtw, the sujimancer is only job that I've seen to totally block you from giving its skills when changing to a different job.

[Metal Izanagi]

Woof...that really sounds like the Sujimancer needs some love in a patch, or I guess a mod if RGG Studio prefers it to be a joke class.

[some guy]

Originally posted by Homebrew:

I'm level 55 on average and you're 100% on point; the Sujimancer absolutely sucks. It's basically a mage with extra steps and less damage. And to be clear, I've completely cleared the Sujimon minigame and I have 4 Kiwami (sp) Sujimon that are stupidly overpowered, and it still sucks.

I think LOD:IW just built a game that's so massive they didn't actually have time to balance the 100 intricate systems included and it shows. This class absolutely sucks ass.

this sounds about right, theres so much unbalanced ♥♥♥♥ in this. but i guess its not about challenge and more about exploration and story.

[Dwarven Runesmith]

I don't get how your damage is so low.

My party just reached level 41 range and job level like 20 to 30 and he does minimal 600+ damage.

[Wingnut Mcmoomoo]

Originally posted by Dwarven Runesmith:

I don't get how your damage is so low.

My party just reached level 41 range and job level like 20 to 30 and he does minimal 600+ damage.

Yeah I assume these people missed a step in either raising their stats via other jobs first or by not getting their sujimon strong enough first. At level 54 (i'm about to do newgame+) I'm doing up to 1800 damage with his basic sujimon attacks if they are weak to them, if they aren't weak its over 1k damage often enough with the low end currently being around 900. These numbers are on big swell enemies who are higher level than my party.

Its a weaker class for a while but once you hit the end of your first playthrough its actually really good since you have to rely on weaknesses so much later on and he has easy access to all the types.

[Dwarven Runesmith]

Originally posted by Wingnut Mcmoomoo:

Originally posted by Dwarven Runesmith:

I don't get how your damage is so low.

My party just reached level 41 range and job level like 20 to 30 and he does minimal 600+ damage.

Yeah I assume these people missed a step in either raising their stats via other jobs first or by not getting their sujimon strong enough first. At level 54 (i'm about to do newgame+) I'm doing up to 1800 damage with his basic sujimon attacks if they are weak to them, if they aren't weak its over 1k damage often enough with the low end currently being around 900. These numbers are on big swell enemies who are higher level than my party.

Its a weaker class for a while but once you hit the end of your first playthrough its actually really good since you have to rely on weaknesses so much later on and he has easy access to all the types.

With additional all AoE ultimate attack.

[Wingnut Mcmoomoo]

Originally posted by Dwarven Runesmith:

Originally posted by Wingnut Mcmoomoo:

Yeah I assume these people missed a step in either raising their stats via other jobs first or by not getting their sujimon strong enough first. At level 54 (i'm about to do newgame+) I'm doing up to 1800 damage with his basic sujimon attacks if they are weak to them, if they aren't weak its over 1k damage often enough with the low end currently being around 900. These numbers are on big swell enemies who are higher level than my party.

Its a weaker class for a while but once you hit the end of your first playthrough its actually really good since you have to rely on weaknesses so much later on and he has easy access to all the types.

With additional all AoE ultimate attack.

and a full team res (less strong but i've found use for it post first playthrough

[Yhwach]

None of the classes are weak and they all shine in some way or another, especially with sub-classing other skills into them.
If you run Kawakami Green, Red, etc. which have the highest scaling for their type then you'll do enough with the class.