Localizers are still trash, as expected

[retsa2b]

As usual, they're discarding the original dialogue so they can make up new lines. Didn't take long at all to spot examples.

Like when Kasuga is talking to the punk after he got his money back for him, the subs say, "Well, that all depends on you." Whereas what he spoke in Japanese was, "I will of course do my very utmost (to help)."

Looking forward to another RGG game filled with moments where the only defense against their localizing team's penchant for reinventing dialogue is for the player to understand enough Japanese to muscle through that bull----.

[Splinter of Chaos]

Do you have a source for this? Localization is a really interesting topic for me so I'd like to see the two lines back to back, or at least if someone has transcribed what the original Japanese text said, not just some translation by an unknown author.

Though considering the discussions I've been involved in where translators completely rewrote dialogue... I'm not sure this is even in the ballpark. If someone said "I will do my best to help," then to follow with "the rest depends on you" is a very natural flow; the one kind of implies the other, thus the two statements have fairly similar meanings in my mind.

[Tracido]

Me: Never ever in the history of gaming since the PS2 have I played these games with English, on purpose.

[retsa2b]

Originally posted by Nall:

Oh look another illiterate whiner who doesn't understand that nuance and context are more important than a 1:1 translation.

Here's what you're defending, dipsh--. (Timestamp 11:50)
https://youtu.be/tLKyA33pOUM?t=710

Japanese: "Noboru... Thank you."
English: "Noboru... You make me proud to be a mother."

Go ahead, make yourself look like a blithering idiot by trying to defend this change as "nuance and context" as opposed to the localizer pulling dialogue straight out of their arse. Multiply this microcosm by 1000 and you may begin to comprehend a glimmering of the issue.

Here's another golden specimen, from Judgment:

https://i.imgur.com/dLNOPDG.jpg

[Nall]

It doesn't take much reading ability to realize that "I'm proud to be your mother. I'm sorry I always have to leave you alone." flows better and sounds more heartfelt than "Thanks. Sorry you're alone all the time."

But apparently you lack even that much.

[Splinter of Chaos]

Originally posted by retsa2b:

Here's what you're defending, dipsh--. (Timestamp 11:50)
https://youtu.be/tLKyA33pOUM?t=710

Japanese: "Noboru... Thank you."
English: "Noboru... You make me proud to be a mother."

Sorry, but this is mistranscribed.

English: Noboru... You make me proud to be a mother. I'm sorry I always have to leave you.
Japanese (by my ear): ノボル、ありがとう。いつも一人で寂しかったよね。ごめん。

I agree the Japanese is pretty different, though. She acknowledges that her son is always alone and that he must be lonely, but the "you make me proud to be a mother" part replaces ありがとう for what ever reason. This still isn't what I'd call a smoking gun. It takes some of the vagueness of the Japanese and fills in the blanks, which is patronizing, but rather standard.

On the other hand, the https://i.imgur.com/dLNOPDG.jpg link you provided is a perfect, unambiguously inaccurate mistranslation.

[r0ttingplague]

im sure theyre just trying to spice up the dialogue so it fits the mood of the situation does irk me with the inconsistency though

[Tracido]

Originally posted by Splinter of Chaos:

Originally posted by retsa2b:

Here's what you're defending, dipsh--. (Timestamp 11:50)
https://youtu.be/tLKyA33pOUM?t=710

Japanese: "Noboru... Thank you."
English: "Noboru... You make me proud to be a mother."

Sorry, but this is mistranscribed.

English: Noboru... You make me proud to be a mother. I'm sorry I always have to leave you.
Japanese (by my ear): ノボル、ありがとう。いつも一人で寂しかったよね。ごめん。

I agree the Japanese is pretty different, though. She acknowledges that her son is always alone and that he must be lonely, but the "you make me proud to be a mother" part replaces ありがとう for what ever reason. This still isn't what I'd call a smoking gun. It takes some of the vagueness of the Japanese and fills in the blanks, which is patronizing, but rather standard.

On the other hand, the https://i.imgur.com/dLNOPDG.jpg link you provided is a perfect, unambiguously inaccurate mistranslation.

Isn't it a fact some of the localization team don't even speak Japanese? Like I am never listening to dubs when that's the standard. It's not personal, they can do whatever they want, but don't take my Japanese original audio and text translation, or I'd be fighting someone..

[Nall]

A translation that isn't exactly what the original language shows isn't 'inaccurate' by default. There's a reason it's called 'localization' and not 'translation'.

The picture shown doesn't give any context for the encounter itself in the game, and the localization is perfectly fine when encountered naturally. It's not 1:1 but that's not an issue. Are the "feelings" and "clarity" of the sentences intact? Then yes, it's a good localization.

1:1 translations are how you get ♥♥♥♥ like Breath of Fire II and Wild ARMs 2. Those games are nigh incomprehensible because they were translated, not localized.

[retsa2b]

Originally posted by Nall:

It doesn't take much reading ability to realize that "I'm proud to be your mother. I'm sorry I always have to leave you alone." flows better and sounds more heartfelt than "Thanks. Sorry you're alone all the time."

What you're defending here is exactly what I underscored: The localizers injected dialogue where it didn't originally exist. They believed they understood how to write this scene better than SEGA, but that is not their job.

Let me repeat this: IT IS NOT THE LOCALIZERS' JOB TO REWRITE SEGA'S GAME FOR THEM.

The scene in question has ample subtext. She doesn't speak her internal dialogue out loud because it doesn't NEED to be spelled out. What the localizers have done here is presume that this internal subtext can't exist in English, and therefore needs to be explicitly spelled out for the dumb English-speaking audience. Arbitrarily, too, since "making her proud to be a mother" is a comically specific thought to pull from the ether.

Let's keep in mind that Like a Dragon is supposed to be SEGA's first game that has two differentiated subtitle tracks—one for the dub and one for the Japanese dialogue. And yet this is what the players who WANT Japanese have to put up with.

My dude, do you have a defense for the second specimen? You know. The one where 「無論！男に二はない！」transformed into "Never! ...But I guess I could dial it down a bit, at least around you. You have earned my ninja respect." I can't wait to see you hand-wave how this total dialogue reinvention inadvertently modified the character's persona, what kind of mental gymnastics you find yourself inventing in order to defend the quip about "ninja respect", or how that gigantic line of dialogue remotely equates to what the localizers started with. Surely... it's all down to "nuance and context"...

[retsa2b]

Originally posted by Splinter of Chaos:

Sorry, but this is mistranscribed.

It isn't. I provided the portion of the line that corresponded to the localization. You may have missed that the full English dialogue covered the remainder of the line:

"I'm sorry I always have to leave you."

Footnote: Note that this is also a very bad localization, as it completely discards the detail about making Noboru feel lonely. If this were an anime localization, they would NOT discard that detail. It's just different standards. Game localizations are largely sh--, and RGG's localizers are a solid case-in-point.

Originally posted by Splinter of Chaos:

It takes some of the vagueness of the Japanese and fills in the blanks, which is patronizing, but rather standard.

Patronizing is the perfect way to describe it. But that doesn't suddenly make it acceptable.

"Standard" is of course relative. The anime industry localizes more dialogue (sub AND dub) every single day than an entire Yakuza game accounts for. And 99.9% of the time, they manage to be accurate and faithful to the original dialogue. THAT is standard. Game localization is comparatively minuscule in volume, but I will eagerly admit that they mostly get things wrong in the same ways that RGG's localizers do. But there are certainly exceptions.

[retsa2b]

Originally posted by Nall:

1:1 translations are how you get ♥♥♥♥ like Breath of Fire II and Wild ARMs 2. Those games are nigh incomprehensible because they were translated, not localized.

(Did you ban yourself?)

We have understood the correct balance between "translation" and "localization" for over a decade. Witness the anime industry. Day in and day out, they cover the overwhelming majority of dialogue that gets localized from Japanese to English, and they get it right. So when horsesh-- like the two specimens I've here underscored come along, they have absolutely no excuse. An entire industry manages to get this right. They are failing at their one job.

[retsa2b]

Originally posted by Tracido:

Like I am never listening to dubs when that's the standard. It's not personal, they can do whatever they want, but don't take my Japanese original audio and text translation, or I'd be fighting someone..

This is the problem, though. 95% of the dialogue in a given Yakuza game—and Infinite Wealth is clearly no exception—is straight up text with nothing spoken. You and I are at the total mercy of a localizing team who has a proven record of not giving one sh-- how faithful they're being to the original dialogue.

I earlier posted an image of a bit of localization from the game Judgment. This particular bit of dialogue is not spoken. The only reason I know for certain that the localizers f---ed around with the dialogue is because I had a strong hunch, and went and found a video of the game in straight Japanese. Look at how AWFUL that localization is. How many times a minute do you suppose the localization goes off-kilter like this? There's no way of knowing. We're at their mercy.

[nobalkain]

Originally posted by retsa2b:

Originally posted by Nall:

1:1 translations are how you get ♥♥♥♥ like Breath of Fire II and Wild ARMs 2. Those games are nigh incomprehensible because they were translated, not localized.

(Did you ban yourself?)

We have understood the correct balance between "translation" and "localization" for over a decade. Witness the anime industry. Day in and day out, they cover the overwhelming majority of dialogue that gets localized from Japanese to English, and they get it right. So when horsesh-- like the two specimens I've here underscored come along, they have absolutely no excuse. An entire industry manages to get this right. They are failing at their one job.

Are you actually trying to say that Anime Localizers actually do a good job? Cause we have plenty in both Gaming and Anime that mess it up, and do so on purpose.

[Tracido]

Originally posted by retsa2b:

Originally posted by Tracido:

Like I am never listening to dubs when that's the standard. It's not personal, they can do whatever they want, but don't take my Japanese original audio and text translation, or I'd be fighting someone..

This is the problem, though. 95% of the dialogue in a given Yakuza game—and Infinite Wealth is clearly no exception—is straight up text with nothing spoken. You and I are at the total mercy of a localizing team who has a proven record of not giving one sh-- how faithful they're being to the original dialogue.

I earlier posted an image of a bit of localization from the game Judgment. This particular bit of dialogue is not spoken. The only reason I know for certain that the localizers f---ed around with the dialogue is because I had a strong hunch, and went and found a video of the game in straight Japanese. Look at how AWFUL that localization is. How many times a minute do you suppose the localization goes off-kilter like this? There's no way of knowing. We're at their mercy.

Oh yeah, it's part of why I bought books to learn even basic Kanji, Katakana, and Hiragana for linkage. The translators need a huge overhaul and localization, should flat out be fired or ONLY work on the English voice, leave the text alone, I could even tell back in the old days with anime series like Serial Experiments: Lain. Wish more could be done about it all. As a fan it is frustrating.

[Splinter of Chaos]

Originally posted by retsa2b:

Originally posted by Splinter of Chaos:

Sorry, but this is mistranscribed.

It isn't. I provided the portion of the line that corresponded to the localization. You may have missed that the full English dialogue covered the remainder of the line:

"I'm sorry I always have to leave you."

Footnote: Note that this is also a very bad localization, as it completely discards the detail about making Noboru feel lonely.

I'm really not sure I agree; the kid feeling lonely is the other side of the coin of always leaving him alone. The same as the example in the OP, this is just a case of the translator deciding which side of the coin is more appropriate for the dialogue in the target language.

It's not that I think "you make me proud to be a mother" is necessarily the best they could've come up with, but I feel like it's honestly fine and this isn't really the best example to focus on if you want to convince people how bad the translation is. The other example is much, much better.

Side note: On localizers not knowing Japanese: There are typically translators, but voice actors are also "localizers". I don't think knowing Japanese should be required in order to read a script produced by a translator. When people talk about localizers not knowing Japanese, I find most of the time they're talking about voice actors.