"hidden" buttons ruin the fun of this game... :-(

[e☆zy t@rget]

i pretty much like the game but i needed to start looking at a walkthrough twice, because i was totally stuck and lost. the solution was in both cases a more or less "hidden" button on the wall. usually i´m able to find the way on my own, but looking for small buttons on the wall is awkward concerning contemporary game design, even for an "old school" game. just my 2 cents... not sure if i´m gonna continue, because i don´t have fun looking up the solution...

[Dr.Disaster]

What's a more or less "hidden" button?

Paying attention to details was, is and will always be key to get thru a dungeon crawler.

[Puzzlemint]

Originally posted by Dr.Disaster:

Paying attention to details was, is and will always be key to get thru a dungeon crawler.

This. Legend of Grimrock is actually very tame in this respect, compared to other games of the genre.

Grimrock actively teaches you to look for hidden buttons very early in the first level ("loose rock"); in most games of this type, they don't even bother teaching you. They just assume you have the presence of mind to be on the look out for such things.

[e☆zy t@rget]

honestly, i didn´t know that paying attention to small randomly located buttons in walls is a crucial requirement for dungeon crawlers! so dungeon crawlers and me won´t become friends, since i don´t want to waste my time with examining walls in a game...

[Dr.Disaster]

Originally posted by e☆zy t@rget:

honestly, i didn´t know that paying attention to small randomly located buttons in walls is a crucial requirement for dungeon crawlers! so dungeon crawlers and me won´t become friends, since i don´t want to waste my time with examining walls in a game...

Oh it's does not end with examining walls. Floor, ceiling, lights and sound (both presents and absense) play into it too. Also sometimes a single step forward can cause a change hard to notice so yes one needs to be on his toes...

[e☆zy t@rget]

Originally posted by Dr.Disaster:

Oh it's does not end with examining walls. Floor, ceiling, lights and sound (both presents and absense) play into it too. Also sometimes a single step forward can cause a change hard to notice so yes one needs to be on his toes...

and now i´m completely done with that genre, thanks for the warning! :-)

[DoomEager]

It does sound like dungeon crawlers aren't your cup of tea, but for what it's worth, in Grimrock there are very few different kinds of hidden buttons. For instance, the ones you've pressed so far have probably been in the same spot on the wall-- the same spot where you will find many others (like the "loose rock"). It's easy in Grimrock to look at just a couple of spots on a wall and ascertain whether there is a button, after you've seen that kind of button a couple times.

But your frustation is understandable. Sorry it didn't work out between you and Grimrock!

[e☆zy t@rget]

well we had a good time, but it´s better to break up, before the suffering begins... ;-)

[Les White]

I don't evern understand this thread. There's not an endless supply of walls. The button is always in the same place, every single wall. It's a simle case of pattern recognition. Is there a button on this wall? no. This wall looks the same as the last wall, therefore, no button.

There's one hidden button wall image for every wall type. That's not exactly overwhelming and ridiculous.

[Zumbertinho]

Originally posted by e☆zy t@rget:

i pretty much like the game but i needed to start looking at a walkthrough twice, because i was totally stuck and lost. the solution was in both cases a more or less "hidden" button on the wall. usually i´m able to find the way on my own, but looking for small buttons on the wall is awkward concerning contemporary game design, even for an "old school" game. just my 2 cents... not sure if i´m gonna continue, because i don´t have fun looking up the solution... :rcry:

From what I understand, this game is somewhat a homage to old 3D "tiled" dungeon crawlers like Eye of the Beholder, Wizardry.. those games aren't only hard, they need you to pay attention to details like that... not only hidden buttons but floor layout, traps, etc.. Lands of Lore has a lot of hidden buttons like this, and more than one type of hidden button for that matter. I understand why someone might be frustrated because it's a little detail, and maybe even it was easier in those old games because the graphics were more simple and the buttons would stand out more (I knew what I was looking for and it was kind of hard to see this button too, it really doesn't stand out at all), but this is part of the fun of the game. It really isn't that hard in this game, there are riddles written in the walls, so it isn't just leaving you in the dark (pun intented =P) there. Unfortunately this won't be corrected (I think) by playing on easy, but I would advise those people to make just a little bit more of effort, otherwise you won't be able to have fun with anything at all except casual games where everything has a bypass or is handed down to you on a silver platter... that kind of sad (it's kind of understandable too, though.. we don't have much patience anymore or even time for this kind of game)..
Maybe there are some custom made dungeons that are more straight-foward, you should check
it out, but maybe also this is not your kind of game. But this game is supposed to be hard, and if you passed this part it means you're making progress, so I really think you shouldn't give up.

tl;dr: discovering things is kind of fun; you're right that the button should stand out more; if it's not for you, then try other games, don't torture yourself with a game you didn't like :-)
steam doens't refund :-(

[lucmobz]

The thing is hidden buttons are often in worthless corridors or useless alcoves and are so easily missed. I don't like that I have to constantly scan the walls in order to get decent gear, but not much we can do beside hoping they'll be more rational in placing hidden stuff in LoG 2.

[Dr.Disaster]

Originally posted by lucmobz:

The thing is hidden buttons are often in worthless corridors or useless alcoves and are so easily missed. I don't like that I have to constantly scan the walls in order to get decent gear, but not much we can do beside hoping they'll be more rational in placing hidden stuff in LoG 2.

The point of hidden stuff is that it is "hard to find". If you want something put efford into it! In that matter the dungeon crawler genre never held anyones hands and LoG 2 won't start with it.

[lucmobz]

I prefer when the button placement is clever not random, and some buttons are just random.
And also if the movement and looking around system wasn't so strict it would be much more enjoyable to scan every piece of wall in the entire mountain. (like being able to move while turning with the mouse...)

[e☆zy t@rget]

Originally posted by lucmobz:

I prefer when the button placement is clever not random, and some buttons are just random.

THIS! exactly ruined my fun with the game, but as i learned it is part of the genre, i quit the whole genre... ;-)

[lucmobz]

No need for that, unless you really can't stand it, grimrock is still one of the best games I've ever played.

[duanevp]

Originally posted by e☆zy t@rget:

the solution was in both cases a more or less "hidden" button on the wall. usually i´m able to find the way on my own, but looking for small buttons on the wall is awkward concerning contemporary game design, even for an "old school" game.

It is BECAUSE the game is an "old school" homage that it occasionally may require you to search the walls for something easily unnoticed when you move by it too fast or just don't happen to look in the right direction at the right time. Think about what was necessary for these kind of games back when graphics were 800x600 at best. That's why the "hidden" button became a staple of the genre.