Hacking Hackers Who Hack

[Eagleheart]

There's a hacker in nearly every other game I play now. It's getting pretty ridiculous. Can we do something about the hacks?

[CanadianTick]

It's not a "difficult to perform" trick. You literally just have to grapple as you're falling.
This isn't some ridiculous mortal kombat-esque fighter game where the pros need to memorize some 14-digit combo to pull off a special.

The "pros" in this game are called as such for no other reason than they're patient; they use whatever particular items they get on prime locations on whatever particular map they happen to play on. They don't waste their boosts the moment they get them; using them to maintain a lead if they must or catch up, or use it to control their fall when in the air. They don't hold their grapples for longer than they have to either.

But most of all, the absolute MAIN reason they're good? They pay attention when someone else does better than them in a race; noticing how someone behind them is suddenly neck-to-neck or even ahead after a slick maneuver, or remember how badly they got OWNED by someone using a particular item on them at a certain spot.

It's just a succession of little things that accumulate, not some over arching supposed "trick" whose usage makes them "pro".

[PlaceHolder]

I meant "difficult to perform" as relative.
Boost-jumping could be considered "difficult to perform" to some.

I like playing against people who are better than me, since the way this game looks makes it easy to imitate better players.
I remember playing against Jubles, and I had a pretty good time.
If you lose, you usually lose for a reason. Find out what the winner did to make you lose.
And then try to do what he did so you can be a winner yourself.

Experience plays a big hand in the "pro" factor.
A person who has played this game for 20 hours will obviously be more "pro" than a person who has only played for two.
They understand the maps, the items, and the situations in which to do certain actions.
And as Jubles put it, they used their time played in watching better players to get better themselves.

[Eagleheart]

Alright, I'm really starting to think there is an immense amount of confusion going on here. Are you sure what happens in those videos is the 'grapple boost' you are talking about? I know how to use the grapple on a fall to get a good quick boost all the time. That's not what happens at all here.

In the second video, he gets the normal boost I usually am accustomed to, then jumps again in the air and seems to get an additional boost...then lands...then jumps again, seemingly getting a further boost over a rather large distance...hits the ground...jumps twice more...and still has boost, animation going and all...before finally landing and beginning to run at a normal speed. All throughout this his meter does not lower a single iota from when he started falling.

If all you need to do is grapple to make such a ridiculous superboost happen, then I must be completely blind...because I have never in my entire experience of this game seen anyone get that much boost without using any meter. We must be talking about completely different things here...what I am seeing in that video looks like an exploit or cheating...

[Reso]

It in fact is grapple boost but the way game works you can keep your boost as long as you keep jumping right when you hit the ground. Kind of reminds boost jumping but now you can only use it in certain situations.

[Mibeshu]

I suppose you could see it as skimming a stone across water. He's not 'boosting' as gliding along the surface with the momentum he's already got. The videos you showed us are a good example of a good player. Even I'd struggle to do what he did every time.

[CanadianTick]

Keep in mind though that seeing someone with the boosting animation doesn't mean they're actually boosting. The after-images seem to pop up whenever you get past a certain speed too.

[Never Practice]

Eagleheart eredeti hozzászólása:

I didn't know pointless insults and ridiculous overstatements were the norm on Steam forums. Very productive. If you think it should be kept in, then you could at least state a logical reason. I can see the merits of having a difficult to perform trick that only pros can do, but it looks a lot more to me like an unintended exploit that gives far too much of an advantage. Doing it seems to practically guarantees a win over someone who doesn't every time...even if they make no real mistakes. Advantages for pros should be implemented within the normal scope of the game through more advanced and difficult levels, not through such manipulations.

That was not an insult (I did not make fun of you or call you a name ... not sure what that's about) or an overstatement.

You are calling it an exploit but don't realize the topic has already been explored in great detail on these forums. A few things have already been cut out because people could not do them. The devs have taken out what they feel is explotative and trying it out this way.

Drifitng in racing games, audibles in football games, and option selects in Street Fighter are all examples of things that a new player can not do even if they can see it happening. It takes some practice and maybe some tips from other players. Those who can not perform these tricks will often lose to players who can. That does not mean it should be taken out. That's not a pro thing. It just takes practice.

I'm not getting into that whole thing again but I would caution everyone to play more and mimic the guy winning before making suggestions for changes to the game because you are losing.

PlaceHolder eredeti hozzászólása:

I can only imagine the levels of condescension going through Lay_Z's head.

Also, I enjoyed this very much.

Edit: And to be clear, what Eagleheart brought up is well known. When boost jumping was removed, I said this technique (skip jumping, or whatever you want to call it) would be even more broken if boost jumping was taken out because there is literally no way to keep up. It's stayed in the game and that's fine since the devs want it in, but I'm sure he is not the only person who believes it is a hack. It's even more crazy looking than boost jumping because it requires no boost, just a drop from height and a proper grapple but can also be repeated if each jump has certain decline. His point is basically that no one who is unable to do this can keep up, which I understand, but that's not a reason to take it out.

[Kyborek]

Eagleheart eredeti hozzászólása:

Alright, so this Scootaloo guy was definitely cheating. I didn't want to believe it. I wanted to believe he was really just an uber pro of epic proportions when he beat me easily eight times, but it was not so. It was incredibly difficult to notice since he was actually a pretty good player, but he always seemed to have a full boost bar and around game 10 or so he started getting lazy and I noticed him boosting without his meter going down quite a few times. Then he started making it incredibly obvious at the same spot on this map every time, and I managed to catch it on video:

http://www.twitch.tv/illuvius/c/3142049
http://www.twitch.tv/illuvius/c/3142076

There is no way that is normal or a glitch. His meter doesn't go down at all when he is clearly boosting. It happened the same way a few times before I started recording as well as happening on other maps. This is around the fourth time I've come across someone being able to boost without the meter going down.

I have made video of that exact trick. The problem is that even after boost-jumping was removed the speed he gets from falling down is "natural" and because of that it does not vanish mid-air only after you land on ground. But if he jumps as soon as he lands there will be so short time that he won't loose any speed. Anyone can surely reproduce this trick the key is timing of grapple and jumps: http://youtu.be/iCkgqjRbuSU

[King Bogs]

i don't know whether it's a bug, lag, hacking or all three but i've been experiencing really slow grapple speeds. i don't know if this has anything to do with connection but it appears that my grapples go at almost no speed giving anyone it targets time to slide. is anyone else experiencing this?

[Gert-Jan Stolk]

Bogs eredeti hozzászólása:

i don't know whether it's a bug, lag, hacking or all three but i've been experiencing really slow grapple speeds. i don't know if this has anything to do with connection but it appears that my grapples go at almost no speed giving anyone it targets time to slide. is anyone else experiencing this?

This will happen if you have a laggy connection with the one you are grappling to. What happens is that the grapple will go normal speed on the potential victim's screen so he is able to dodge it, and thereby slower on your screen to compensate for latency. There is a minimum speed for the grappling hook which is half it's normal speed, I feel that's a bit too low, so we may change that at some point.

[Camas]

Sandokan (CZE) eredeti hozzászólása:

I have made video of that exact trick. The problem is that even after boost-jumping was removed the speed he gets from falling down is "natural" and because of that it does not vanish mid-air only after you land on ground. But if he jumps as soon as he lands there will be so short time that he won't loose any speed. Anyone can surely reproduce this trick the key is timing of grapple and jumps: http://youtu.be/iCkgqjRbuSU

Yeah, me and a couple of friends found it too when we were playing on that map. It can happen other places too but it's easiest on SS Royale.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WLBKiXtl5LI

[Eagleheart]

My grapples are messed up like that whenver I record the game to Twitch with Evolve for some reason (both normal grapples and the golden hook), which makes it nearly impossible to both record and win a game. Not that I'm too perturbed by it.

Oh, and I didn't think you had insulted me, Lay_Z. Just others before you had. You only contributed to the overstatement part!

[Gert-Jan Stolk]

Eagleheart eredeti hozzászólása:

My grapples are messed up like that whenver I record the game to Twitch with Evolve for some reason (both normal grapples and the golden hook), which makes it nearly impossible to both record and win a game. Not that I'm too perturbed by it.

We have seen some weird stuff in going on in some streams where the swing movement become a bit choppy, not sure yet what's going on those cases.

[SBC saboya]

I never noticed anything different when I record (I use OBS but save to a file, instead of streaming), but lately I've been having issues with some completely ridiculous golden hooks that make absolutely no sense. It's hard to make a pleasant experience off extreme ping differences (which is why most glitches happen), but I see some room for improvement there.

[King Bogs]

Gert-Jan Stolk eredeti hozzászólása:

Bogs eredeti hozzászólása:

i don't know whether it's a bug, lag, hacking or all three but i've been experiencing really slow grapple speeds. i don't know if this has anything to do with connection but it appears that my grapples go at almost no speed giving anyone it targets time to slide. is anyone else experiencing this?

This will happen if you have a laggy connection with the one you are grappling to. What happens is that the grapple will go normal speed on the potential victim's screen so he is able to dodge it, and thereby slower on your screen to compensate for latency. There is a minimum speed for the grappling hook which is half it's normal speed, I feel that's a bit too low, so we may change that at some point.

yeah, cheers for the feedback. i wouldn't mind so much if it wasn't considerably slower, especially when you need to make that quick grapple at a longer distance

game's come so far now though and can't wait to see it when it's finished