Does anyone know what sort of networking model SpeedRunners is using?

[Oaken]

As the title says, does anyone know what sort of networking model SpeedRunners is using? I get the feeling it's using P2P, which isn't the way to go when the game is supposed to be fast-paced. It even has the word "speed" in the name.

If any devs reads this, please make the users aware of who is the "server" if any. And please, allow players to see ping while playing. I'm not sure how experienced you are in developing a game that requires this kind of updating, but I'm sure I'm not alone when I say that something has to change if this game is to be played online.

[CanadianTick]

I'm not getting any problems. Sure, there's the odd person who lags now and then, but that symbol usually pops up over their heads when that happens.

[Taters McShit]

Originally posted by The Oak:

As the title says, does anyone know what sort of networking model SpeedRunners is using? I get the feeling it's using P2P, which isn't the way to go when the game is supposed to be fast-paced. It even has the word "speed" in the name.

If any devs reads this, please make the users aware of who is the "server" if any. And please, allow players to see ping while playing. I'm not sure how experienced you are in developing a game that requires this kind of updating, but I'm sure I'm not alone when I say that something has to change if this game is to be played online.

p2p and why you want to see ping while playing? i wouldn't want it constantly

[[COxMA] Altripp]

Peer to peer. But I don't get it - what the networking model has got to do at all with the pace of the game?

[Taters McShit]

Originally posted by Aldrigg:

Peer to peer. But I don't get it - what the networking model has got to do at all with the pace of the game?

He thinks as it is fast paced that p2p is a bad idea. Not sure why, as when you have a decent connection to people its fine.

[Oaken]

Originally posted by Taters McShit:

Originally posted by Aldrigg:

Peer to peer. But I don't get it - what the networking model has got to do at all with the pace of the game?

He thinks as it is fast paced that p2p is a bad idea. Not sure why, as when you have a decent connection to people its fine.

Because if the P2P system works the way it finds one player to be server, that player HAS to be stable. If it is like BitTorrent without a servernode it requires too many confirmations to be responsive and stable. If you know anything about networking, or even better networking in games, you would know that P2P is a bad system for games like this.

[Valannor]

I absolutely agree that a P2P networking is not the best solution, especially not if you advertise your game as a competitive platformer.

I guess a C/S network architecture would be the right way to do it, but I can see why the devs chose a P2P model.
Firstly, it is a very viable network solution for games where matches involve small number of players (in this case, 4), and secondly, it saves them a server bill, which is a great advantage for and indie dev studio.
Apart from the latency that OP mentioned as a con from P2P, another major drawback of the P2P networking model is there is no effective way to prevent players from cheating, which is a crucial point for a competitive game like this.

[Oaken]

Originally posted by Valannor:

I absolutely agree that a P2P networking is not the best solution, especially not if you advertise your game as a competitive platformer.

I guess a C/S network architecture would be the right way to do it, but I can see why the devs chose a P2P model.
Firstly, it is a very viable network solution for games where matches involve small number of players (in this case, 4), and secondly, it saves them a server bill, which is a great advantage for and indie dev studio.
Apart from the latency that OP mentioned as a con from P2P, another major drawback of the P2P networking model is there is no effective way to prevent players from cheating, which is a crucial point for a competitive game like this.

Exactly. I understand why they're using P2P, as it's much much cheaper. I was just hoping that maybe if they make enough money they can have servers for ranked games at least. Or an easier hosting and joining mode. That for example I can host, knowing that most people will have as good connection as possible in my region.

[Oaken]

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=309568178

This is one of the biggest reason the connection is problematic. The camera is going back and forth in front and behind us.

[Gert-Jan Stolk]

As mentioned above it's a P2P game.

Right now there are some fixes in the pipeline which should solve the issue shown in the screenshot.

We're also working on a general in-game player stat screen which displays information such as rank and ping of players. This also presents a nice space to do things like muting players or cheater reporting.

As far as cheating goes, any network architecture is open to cheating in various degrees and ways. Our approach therefor is not to start the technology cat and mouse game between developers and cheaters. But opt for a reporting system instead, which would allow us to eventually put cheaters in their own little cheaters league.

[Oaken]

Originally posted by Gert-Jan Stolk:

As mentioned above it's a P2P game.

Right now there are some fixes in the pipeline which should solve the issue shown in the screenshot.

We're also working on a general in-game player stat screen which displays information such as rank and ping of players. This also presents a nice space to do things like muting players or cheater reporting.

As far as cheating goes, any network architecture is open to cheating in various degrees and ways. Our approach therefor is not to start the technology cat and mouse game between developers and cheaters. But opt for a reporting system instead, which would allow us to eventually put cheaters in their own little cheaters league.

Thanks for responding and I'm sure I won't be alone to appreciate the additional information. As for private lobbies goes, is it always the "host" which is the server? Info like that is greatly appreciated as well. A really fun game when everything goes as planned.

[Gert-Jan Stolk]

In a custom game the creator of the custom game is always the host. In pure quick or ranked games it's a bit more difficult because the host role can be transferred to other players when the original host leaves the game.

[Oaken]

Are dedicated servers something you plan on adding? Maybe private owned servers connected to a serverbrowser. There are too many slow peers to have a stable experience with P2P.

Maybe you've got plans to change the servernode dynamically to keep the average ping as low as possible, or something like that.

I've got high hopes and I'm sure the game is only going to get better.

[Gert-Jan Stolk]

No, changing the game from a p2p to a server-client architecture would require me to change the whole netcode layer of the game.

It's a misconception that a server-client architecture would make things better in terms of latency. If anything it makes it worse. Now all peers have a direct (shortest) connection with each other, having a server-client architecture would cause all traffic to go through a server which always makes the route longer.

There is an exception to this. When two peers are unable to connect with each other, all traffic will be routed through valve servers. This situation can be handled better. A solution will be implemented in the next major update (r31). After that there are some other optimizations I'd like to try to make the laggy situations more uncommon (reduced packet count, reduced bandwidth use).

[Oaken]

I understand the reasoning behind having it a P2P connection and that it's nothing you easily change. The upsides are, as you say, a possibly shorter route and no cost to keep up a bunch of servers.

If I understood the model you're using one clients acts server (Rather than all clients connecting to all clients), and if the said server has a very low bandwidth or high latency it will affect all players in the lobby.

I'm really looking forward to the optimizations in r31. Just one more question about this subject: Have you been thinking about integrating the server and the client more, in order to swap who's who more easily. This could possibly mean a lot of work, depending on the code structure at the moment. But if the client and server are based on the same base, polymorphic structure would make that very possible.

The reason is to dynamically fix "server-lag".

Thank you, Gert-Jan for actually looking into forums and caring about the community/customers. Time to craft that badge for extra $$$ for you.

[Gert-Jan Stolk]

No all peers connect with all other peers, in that regard there actually is no server in SpeedRunners. There is just one peer who has a few more responsibilities than other peers. This peer for example tells all other peers when to start the round countdown.