Constructive Feedback + Tier List [All Maps VII cleared, all classes 60+]

[Sdric]

Proof: All maps max difficulty & all chars 60+

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2893891634
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2893891853

I will focus on aspects of the game that, in my eyes, need improvement. feel free to discuss or add more points to the list below

Enemies

At max. difficulty the game becomes pure survival. A circus of red circles. Generally, there are 2 viable strategies: 1) Get summons to draw enough aggro or 2) Use the Holy skill "Exorcism" combined with massive layers of def to tank random hits.

"But what about glasscannons & dodging? Well, you should dodge whatever you can - while certainly my FPS are partly at fault, as a veteran of bullet hell games Soulstone Survivors has quite a few "Oh come on!"-moments, that result in ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ death or severe hitpoint loss out of nowhere.

1. Fire-Boss-Flamethrower: 2 to 3 screens longs. Poor visability. Hits significantly outside of the shown hitbox. Relatively high turn speed.
   
2. Pala-Miniboss-Cone (Holy): Very fast travelling speed. Outranges shown hitbox. Extremely high cast speed. 1HKO even through heavy defense investment.

Honorable mention:

• Vodoo-Boss-Circle: While easy to avoid, the sheer frequency at which this is cast essentially renders all lower range builds unviable. With so many red circles around, being completely forced away from the bosses leaves the player with no other option other than to outrange his AoE, otherwise a significant amount of relevant stacks (e.g., Brittle or Fragility) is lost everry few seconds. Overall the sheer power of its zone control is harmful to player build variety

Perks

Trash tier:

• Rotating Fire-Orbs: Laughable damage. Even has trouble destroying green crystals. It could have had a spot in pure summoner builds as a last line of defense, but as is this ability is a must-banish.

Bottom tier:

• Armor / Life / Block: Those stats ONLY ever work if you have Holy skills to heal up and then you need EXTREME investment to get reach significant breakpoints. Many classes die in 1, 2 or 3 hits of major boss attacks. Even if one is survived the green crystal / level-up healing is low that you end up dead before you're healed up. Block is too few and too unreliable. Armor takes to much investment to hit significant breakpoints. Flat damage reductrion can be somewhat useful to reduce pokes, but overall defense is a lackluster stat that comes at the cost of sacrificing a lot of offensive power.... And dead enemies deal no damage. Overall armor should have it's formula changed to provide a bigger advantage with less investment, but stronger diminishing returns for full self-heal tank builds. By armor having higher value life is automatically buffed passively. Block could either get an increased change or be changed to block 1 guaranteed hit every X seconds.

Runes

Needs Improvement

• Focus Fire: As mentioned in the boss section, you can't afford not to have range. While the damage is nice, Executioneer easily does the same and more with better synergies. Generalist also is easily better.
  
• Purity: Flat damage builds are not functional, due to how strongly bosses scale. While Purity can work in a pure Frailty + Brittle or Frailty + Bleed build, overall the opportunity cost is too high. Purity would need either a significantly higher starting value or a reduced penalty per status in order to be a viable option.
  
• Center of Attention: While I love the idea behind this, this needs A LOT of lucky roles into area size to be playable at higher difficulties. Personally, I would like to see it featuring a slight area increase by default.

Classes

Slight difference from before: Here I will list all classes and not just the bottom.

S-Tier

1. Beastmaster - With the Singular Rune (allows multiple copies of the same skill) Beastmaster is arguably the best character in game. Wartigers are balanced for the highest difficulty of the game and even there, slightly overtuned. The pure DPS makes up for lacking the ability to target enemies and Bestal Wrath makes his beast go even more crazy. On top of that, having meatshields to bait some red circles away from you, is God-given. Even if RNG doesn't line up and you fail to get multiple copies of Wartiger, Beastmaster can combine some of the most reliable meta AoEs with their strong single-target DPS.
   
2. Paladin - As mentioned earlier, Paladin is the one class that can poperly stack defense and sustain (and confused). On top of that Brittle, Fragility, Dazed and Crit Bonus grant him an above average offense.
   
3. Necromancer - Beastmaster, but arguably slightly worse due to less build flexibility and weaker companion buffs.
   
4. (Update according to feedback x3) Arcane Weaver - Since my initial runs suffered from bad RNG I ended up undervaluing him. After giving him another shot based on feedback here, his Shield and Orb (combined with access to Chaos Golems and multiple Brittle appliers) can indeed lead to very easy and successful runs.

A-Tier

1. Barbarian - Chaos Golems to tank + screen-filling AoE stacking conditions with "Synergetic"-rune or classic bleed/fragility/builds grant the Barbarian enough clearpower against trashmobs and elites, and distraction to only care about bosses and larger AoEs (e.g., "Lasting"-type build).
   
2. Hound Master - Chaos Golem to tank & stacking overlapping AoEs to rapidly ramp up Fragility stacks can allow the Houndmaster to quickly scale out of control. However, he's really dependant on getting AoE Size bonuses early on to really take off (thus slightly lower ranked than Berserker)

B-Tier

1. Pyromancer - Arguably A-Tier. Has access to Golem meat shields & strong AoEs that can even scale to out-of-screen range, BUT getting the right skills in time can be tough if RNG doesn't go your way.
   
2. The Sentinel - Spread Shot is an incredibly scaling Fragility applier when combined with the "Multi Cast Mastery"-Rune. Chaos Golem is there to tank. However, low range combined with a 50max health reduction is a hefty starting penalty and will require you to pick up some blue max health modifiers where possible to not get 1-shot killed.

C-Tier

1. The Death Knight - Arguably B-Tier. Great base stats. Solid early clear and scaling.... BUT having no dash will eventually break your neck in Endless runs, sometimes the red circles just spawn too awkward to dodge everything. OP in lower difficulties, though.
   
2. The Elementalist - Requires off-class bodies to tank for him, wasting some rune capacity when compared to Pyromancer. However, he has access to multicast buffs & brittle which grants him a good bosskill potential, though his AoE is limited.

D-Tier

1. The Chaoswalker - Doesn't really offer anything that the Synergistic-Rune doesn't offer any other character. "Controlled Chaos" rune is mandatory and takes up 2 capacity. Overall the numbers seem undertuned for the amount of RNG layers this character suffers from. Requires a lot of upgrade luck to really get going in higher difficulties.
   
2. Spellblade - Has to sacrifice a rune to either get sustain or bodies to block for him. Vulnearable, Exposed, etc. scale ralatively poorly in the highest difficulty, where Fragility and Brittle are king.
   
3. Assassin - While he has access to Chaos Golems, which could potentially enable his positioning gimmik, his extremely low range is just too much off a downside to reliably work at the highest difficult level. He can be decent if you manage to roll multiple general area modifiers early on, but most offen he's just frustrating to play and fails to scale properly before the 1st bosswave arrives, which leaves him to really struggle.

Trash-Tier

1. The Legionnaire - Struggles to kill even basic mobs. Equippiong defensive skills has significant opportunity cost. Damage reduction / tanking is worthless without consistent heal at the highest difficulty. Essentially has to go completely off-set through runes to work. Doesn't snowball well.

[chad gamer]

I left Legionnaire to level as the last for my 100%, and that ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ mentally broke me. I would rather play Death Knight with -150% movespeed than ever touch that thing in my life.
Mostly agree with the list, though I think Chaoswalker scales well enough that it's not nowhere as bad as Spellblade or Assassin.
The worst part of the Endless are honestly just inconsistent AoEs & the fact that certain combos of mini-bosses + bosses are even allowed.

One more thing I'd like to see change is the physics-based acceleration. If that wasn't in the game, I'd spam the ♥♥♥♥ out of the Death Knight. As it is, though, it's extremely awkward to try and rotate when you're running head-first into a circle that just spawned. Pretty much prevents the class from trying to go too high as its running i-frames just aren't enough without a dash.

[dOBER]

Nice review but did you miss arcane shield on arcane weaver? It absorbs so much damage you can easily get to cycle 6+ curse 48. In my option S-Tier compare to heal, armor or block and you have to pick to surrvive longer. Arcane waever has free access to arcane shield and light which makes this incredible OP compare to others.

[kenny]

Originally posted by dOBER:

Nice review but did you miss arcane shield on arcane weaver? It absorbs so much damage you can easily get to cycle 6+ curse 48. In my option S-Tier compare to heal, armor or block and you have to pick to surrvive longer. Arcane waever has free access to arcane shield and light which makes this incredible OP compare to others.

He also forgot about Arcane Orb. Literally the best spell in the game. Annihilates everything even on curse 48.

[Sdric]

Originally posted by 76561198071837106:

Nice review but did you miss arcane shield on arcane weaver? It absorbs so much damage you can easily get to cycle 6+ curse 48. In my option S-Tier compare to heal, armor or block and you have to pick to surrvive longer. Arcane waever has free access to arcane shield and light which makes this incredible OP compare to others.

Maybe I just didn't get the power to scale if properly, but I've been nuked through it, so it didn't really convince me. But I don't mind ranking him higher if others have success with him.

[Ulyaoth]

Fireshield -> YES
Armor -> YES HP you can make high hp builds and increase the dmg with the 3pointRune
Focus Fire -> YES never use this, 2 rune points wasted
Purity -> YES
Center of Attention -> i believe i never used this one except once?!

Tier-List -> this is always a view point thing and with many things i cannot agree
S-Tier and only for me is Arcane Weaver
He has the most op skills avaible from the getgo after prestige lvlv 60 and no needs for runes. He can get 2 Beams, Arcane Orb, and 4 Buffs. Most busted class.

Beastmaster is only overpowerd when you have the rune AND are lucky.
Paladin is okayisch
Necromancer without Single Focus is better for me than Beastmaster
Barbarian no chaos golem and strong bleed build S-Tier after AW
Hound Master no CG and focus on frontal burst, but he is around A or B
Pyromancer sadly multiple instances of combustion tank the fps, but a great dotter
Sentinel S Tier with his basic bow, insane range and aoe cc Sniper Shot strong scaling
Deathknight no S tier, your argument with endless was on point but for onecycle defenitly A
The Elementalist Acces to 3 beams from the getgo so he is also a strong class but worse than AW
The Chaoswalker BEST dotter hands down, completly busted with low effort
Spellblade looking at his intentional class skills that dont work properly hes trash
Assassin there i would agree with CG and Backstab is damn strong plus his stun is bonkers
legionnaire -> YES, you are way to nice to him XD

From what i read you use Chaos Golems often and this is the oppinon thing.
I dont like any summons, only for AssAssin to make enemys look away for backstab or going all in on a summon build. Most time they screw me over and are a wasted spot for a buff or a dmg skill.

Overall good points right there.

[Sdric]

Okay, I'll up Arcane Weaver even more than. I guess I have to play him again. Looks like I really had bad luck in my tries.

As for Beastmaster, I'd argue that he's strong even if you don't go full Wartiger. A single copy can already carry you quite far if you combined its single target DPS with strong AoE clear that keeps it from aggroing trashmobs.
Example:
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2894058042
EDIT: corrected Link

[dOBER]

Originally posted by Sdric:

Okay, I'll up Arcane Weaver even more than. I guess I have to play him again. Looks like I really had bad luck in my tries.

As for Beastmaster, I'd argue that he's strong even if you don't go full Wartiger. A single copy can already carry you quite far if you combined its single target DPS with strong AoE clear that keeps it from aggroing trashmobs.
Example:
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2894058042
EDIT: corrected Link

Try this:

First you go arcane orb to beat easy 12:00 minute mark to get overlord portal

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2894207510

Then you change to light beam

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2894207558

For runes you want singular focus and reroll mastery

[drinking_with_me]

Arcane Weaver is basically my go to character because it has the best chance of achieving busted game. I agree with everyone on Arcane Weaver.

I don't agree that the Legionnaire is trash. He is actually very useful when unlocking progression of the game. This character only sucks when it comes to curse VII, because the first minor boss the Legionnaire goes against is so perfectly anti-legionnaire. It's always evil Arcane Weaver with a ridiculous AOE attack which Legionnaire cannot pierce adequately.

Legionnaire, given the Swing skills set can lateral into the bleed DoT build easily and can have successful run very similar to the Barbarian.

I never liked Assassin. May be I gave up on him too early, but his teleportation skill/spell needs some work. I thought it was clunky. The conditions on his skills are hard to achieve if you do not get summons. I think it is the most difficult character to play. But that is my opinion.

Spellblade is not so bad. After all this is the character that unlocks all arcane skills?, No?
Rather than playing it like melee class, use it as spell class and lateral into arcane build, the character isn't bad. I certainly don't think it deserves D mark... once again my opinion...

Death knight, even thought it as one of the best visually satisfying spell, not having the ability to dash, really puts hamper on longevity.

I think out of the gateway once you have unlock most of the runes/skills, Paladin and Arcane Weaver are the two characters that can easily achieve busted games... Cannot under rate the importance of complete damage mitigation (AW) and constant heal (P).

[Deacon]

Indeed Arcane Weaver, Arcane Orb is BRUTAL, the shield...

I would also put Chaos Walker higher, B or A I would say (same as paladin for me :D). Sure, it's not perfect but I generaly have good games with him.

Death Knight: I like him, building speed and lot of AOE (around him), but sure, the lack of dash can't be entirely compensated by speed and hurt in the long run. (and psychologically, everybody else has it, it's a major mechanic of the game... so not having the option need a time to adapt)

[Sherwin]

How do u do high curse levels with melee skills? when 3 bosses appear i feel like my only option is to dance around in a giant circle and try to chip away at them until i'm inevitably ♥♥♥♥♥♥ over by the sheer frequency of boss aoe's or ping ponged into them by bombers, that or i end up just killing enough elites to summon the next wave of bosses before i've even killed the first lot, can't get in long enough to kill one

[Pretty Kitty]

If you do deep overlord cycle runs death knight is the best, he's the only character that doesn't get ping-pong'd.

[Sherwin]

Originally posted by Pretty Kitty:

If you do deep overlord cycle runs death knight is the best, he's the only character that doesn't get ping-pong'd.

i'm trying to unlock him using barbarian but struggling, even with chaos golems im struggling to find an opening to do any meaningful damage

[Sdric]

Originally posted by Sherwin?!:

How do u do high curse levels with melee skills? when 3 bosses appear i feel like my only option is to dance around in a giant circle and try to chip away at them until i'm inevitably ♥♥♥♥♥♥ over by the sheer frequency of boss aoe's or ping ponged into them by bombers, that or i end up just killing enough elites to summon the next wave of bosses before i've even killed the first lot, can't get in long enough to kill one

AoE range is the keyword. As mentioned in the open post outranging bosses is the key to success in max difficulty runs. The support perk pick-priority is
Range / Fragility / (/Slow + Hypothermia) > Multihit (higher priority if you have Brittle)> Frequency > Damage. Outranging the bosses and stacking damage increasing statuses is arguably the best way to fight bosses.

You'll still be dancing around, but you'll be shredding them at the same time. Summons can give you some more room to attacks, though.

[Ulyaoth]

Originally posted by Sherwin?!:

How do u do high curse levels with melee skills?

Well it depends on the build. You have either a Bleed Build. So you want stack Bleed with Flurry as much as possible and then hack away with Subdue, or you play AssAssin go for Quick Strike and Backstab bosses tanked by Golems or via dashing through them.
With DK you run around like a headless chicken flail your arms around and wait until everything dies trying to harm you.

Originally posted by Sdric:

AoE range is the keyword.

Not a must have when you have melting capeabilites and good at dodging.

[Sherwin]

I got it done thanks guys - my problem was upgrade priorities ':D