Getting rather annoyed

[JtDarth]

With runs ending not because I made a mistake, but because I literally could not see the incoming attacks through my own attack fx. It's more than a little frustrating to have an 'unstoppable' run killed by an attack you had no vision on.

[Pirate]

You can reduce the opacity of your own special effects to make it easier to see enemy attacks.

Settings > Graphics > Special Effects Visibility (slider, turn it down/move it to the left)

[Legendairy2]

well that is quite awkward... almost like people should look through ALL settings before starting their first play session

[JtDarth]

That it is even an issue to begin with is kind of a problem.

The solution to a game design issue should not be 'alter graphics settings'. That's a lazy shortcut around the actual issue, which is enemy attack indicators being underlay rather than overlay, which would solve the issue entirely, without requiring players to dig into graphics settings.


Amazing how you twits just immediately fired in to start looking down on others without even considering the actual complaint.

It is, in no universe, a typical expectation for players to have to go looking in the graphics settings menu for a solution to a gameplay problem.

[JtDarth]

For those who aren't understanding the complaint, this screenshot was taken with 25% weapon fx visibility:
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2892532427
I do wish I could get better screenshots, but my reflexes for hitting the screenshot button mid-gameplay are quite low.

Even with that, you can still BARELY see the red outlines from enemies' attacks that are in the midst of my own. THAT is what the complaint is, and why I repeatedly referred to the existing solution as flawed, even beyond the 'user has to go to settings to fix an issue with the game itself' aspect. It gets worse as you go into endless/overlord mode and get more and more cycles in, with both more and more screen clutter from your own attacks, as well as potentially more enemies on-screen/attacking at the same time. You can also have those attack indicators be somewhat washed out by enemies themselves standing on them, although that is less common and only really happens if your damage is quite far behind where it should be.

outside of fx visiblity of zero, this problem will always remain, because the fx can overlap each other CONSTANTLY, resulting in, say, 25% becoming 100% opacity just by a few (4 in this case) of projectiles overlapping. There's also issues with the color of player attacks causing more or less disruption, depending on the attack. Fire and bomb attacks, as well as holy, and lightning, I'd expect, cause more disruption than poison, ice, or shadow. That said, even ice will still wash out the attack indicators if the player plays far enough or builds for multicast + area.

This is why I mentioned painting the enemy attack indicators as an overlay, as the 'top layer' of things, instead of along the ground underneath everything. There is still some issue with regards to people disliking the way that looks, but it no longer impedes playability in the same way (I can foresee MAYBE some issues with identifying what enemy in particular is standing where, but that is already an issue, so it's not exactly a new problem), and that can also be fine-tuned with the same opacity slider approach the game already tries to use to solve things on the current build, except it should work a bit better that way, as it is modifying only the one important, semi-static factor (enemy targeting indicator) sitting at the top of the stack, as opposed to a bunch of different effects at the middle of the stack.

[Ninja Zyborg]

Originally posted by JtDarth:

For those who aren't understanding the complaint, this screenshot was taken with 25% weapon fx visibility:

25% is too high.

[JtDarth]

Originally posted by Ninja Zyborg:

Originally posted by JtDarth:

Really, that's the tone you want to take? Well, I guess that was obvious given your first post.

Your 'solution' involves decreasing graphical aspects of the game, rather than simply changing order of operations. That 'well make your own game' ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ just makes it SUPREMELY obvious you don't have an argument of any validity and are just trying to pick a damn fight because you can't stand the idea of someone being unsatisfied with a flawed solution that requires compromises that don't have to be made.

Your solution is pretty much identical, though. No idea what kind of point you're trying to make here, other than attempting to show that you don't like being proven wrong.

My solution is to paint the enemy attack indicators ON TOP of the rest of the scene's final render, not at the bottom along the ground. There is no opportunity for them to be overwritten by other stuff, when it is at the top of the stack and has little/ZERO transparency to player FX. You will still likely wind up with some blurring and inprecision, but it will be nowhere near as bad as the current state.

[Ninja Zyborg]

Originally posted by JtDarth:

Originally posted by Ninja Zyborg:

Your solution is pretty much identical, though. No idea what kind of point you're trying to make here, other than attempting to show that you don't like being proven wrong.

My solution is to paint the enemy attack indicators ON TOP of the rest of the scene's final render, not at the bottom along the ground. There is no opportunity for them to be overwritten by other stuff, when it is at the top of the stack and has little/ZERO transparency to player FX. You will still likely wind up with some blurring and inprecision, but it will be nowhere near as bad as the current state.

"My solution is to paint the enemy attack indicators ON TOP of the rest of the scene's final render, not at the bottom along the ground."
...which decreases a graphical aspect of the game.

[Ninja Zyborg]

Originally posted by JtDarth:

YOU chose to use 10%. I find it ridiculous that on a slider of 0-100, that starts at 100, you have to turn it down as low as 1/10th to not have gameplay be hindered in an objective manner. I find that as deep indication of an issue, and that the solution currently in use is deeply flawed.

Your solution isn't much better. Sure, it might work for some builds, but for others where red is the predominant color, it would still be quite ineffective. Are you telling me you could tell where the enemy attacks were reliably with a chaos build if the enemy attacks were layered on top? The most effective solution would involve a complete artstyle change, which is never going to happen.

[btan219]

hey karen, why not ask to speak to a manager for a refund??

[JtDarth]

Originally posted by Ninja Zyborg:

Originally posted by JtDarth:

YOU chose to use 10%. I find it ridiculous that on a slider of 0-100, that starts at 100, you have to turn it down as low as 1/10th to not have gameplay be hindered in an objective manner. I find that as deep indication of an issue, and that the solution currently in use is deeply flawed.

Your solution isn't much better. Sure, it might work for some builds, but for others where red is the predominant color, it would still be quite ineffective. Are you telling me you could tell where the enemy attacks were reliably with a chaos build if the enemy attacks were layered on top? The most effective solution would involve a complete artstyle change, which is never going to happen.

Chaos is the one example where it doesn't really work, but even there it wouldn't require a 'total artstyle change'. It would require some adjustment of either the enemy indicator color or the chaos color to be shades of some contrast to each other. That's part of the wonder of having the enemy attack indicator the top color, as no matter how it's opacity is set, it WILL tinge the underlying stuff with it's color, meaning even when the screen is flooded with, say, a strong purple, or green, you will still have paths and circles that are tinged red that are noticeable, as opposed to current situation, where you COMPLETELY lose the attack indicators.

[Chips Ahoy! CHEWY]

Mans upset cause he died lmao, now trying to justify why this or that should be changed WHEN NO ONE is agreeing. go take a breather kid, I even got angry at one point, its natural. u going back and forth on here will only waste ur time and we will continue enjoying you rage.

[Rathmun]

Originally posted by Chips Ahoy! CHEWY:

Mans upset cause he died lmao, now trying to justify why this or that should be changed WHEN NO ONE is agreeing. go take a breather kid, I even got angry at one point, its natural. u going back and forth on here will only waste ur time and we will continue enjoying you rage.

Quite understandably upset because he repeatedly died due to the defaults being dumb.

For a more reasonable comparison, gamma correction options in games. The default setting is almost always still playable, even if it's not optimal. Most of the time you only have to adjust it by a few percent to reach that optimal level too. The defaults in this game are like having the default gamma correction high enough to turn the entire screen white. Sure, the setting is there, you can change it to something better. That's still a stupid default.

[BobOnix]

Im still not sure why turning down the settings of a graphic that basically makes the sprites pointless and turns the game into a red zone dodge spreadsheet is actually viable game design.

it would be like turning off smoke in a fps so you can see the enemy, i don't think it was ever intended and the devs adding a slider only really confirms they know its a mess. Face it 100% of us went "♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥" and then turned the opacity completely off

[RiptidE]

check your settings bud also i cant wait for future updates especially regarding something to do with minor soulstones i have racked up around 2mil lol but i absolutely adore the game and commend the devs <3

[Ulyaoth]

Wow this one escalated quickly...

i absolutely understand the point, that reducing special effects visibility is a cheap and lazy solution. But it is still a kind of solution and it came quick. With the right adjustment its still possible to enjoy the effects, but still be able to see every dmg zone.
You can even play on higher curse levels with 100% visibility when youre shredding everything before it starts to lay down red circles.
Layering dmg zones over the effects would also be a quick and lazy solution, but i think of a incredible ugly one that comes down to the same bs as reducing the sev.

Originally posted by JtDarth:

With runs ending not because I made a mistake, but because I literally could not see the incoming attacks through my own attack fx. It's more than a little frustrating to have an 'unstoppable' run killed by an attack you had no vision on.

Originally posted by Pirate:

You can reduce the opacity of your own special effects to make it easier to see enemy attacks.

Settings > Graphics > Special Effects Visibility (slider, turn it down/move it to the left)

Leaving it right there like the other people with the other 564564456 discussions like that, or putting out a great solution idea to the core problem itself had been a good way of continueing the discussion. Or a simple "Oh jeah thx"
But no, better go down the angry road. And for me personaly reading something like that with "getting rather annoyed" "insert words that came up 1mil times already" as a dev i would just roll my eyes and ask myself "was this neccessary and worth the time?"

I cant think of a good solution myself atm, thinking about games like VS or 20MtD they have the exact same problem.

Constructive critisism is a very important thing, especially when devs take it seriously but starting a discussion like that, there isnt any point of constructive critisism in there.
So many people will go ham, cause this was statet a thousend times already, with the current cheap and lazy solution and your intro sounds like a angry person that dies often.

"Suggestion to the Devs"
Sadly your current solution to lower the sev isnt really satisfying because the game is about the nice effects and many boom boom.
So here is my --- insert proper suggestion here, maybe sniffed up from a similar game ---
Or:
Doesnt have anyone a better idea of solving this problem?

This had maybe started something productive...