Let's talk about that ending (spoilers)

[pannicatack]

No, not the happy bit where Johnny dies with his dream of going to the moon fulfilled. I'm talking about the bit after the credits.

Watts stands at the graves of Johnny and River, contemplating everything he saw over the course of the job. Then, there's a strange flicker, like what happened when Johnny's condition was unstable or when he was at the verge of dying in the end.

Could it be that Dr. Neil Watts himself a patient of the process and that he himself is dying and reliving his life in his mind?

[Daniel Mtanous - USA - INACTIVE]

Originally posted by Kristo:

how do you explain that strange shadow that eva saw in the car, or the elevator always opening when she press the button like the kid said in mini-scope 2, i think she could be in the one who is dying but then again i went to check the control room in the basement and.... it says neil stopped the machine and restarted it, neil mentionned that it`s probably a glitch but i don`t buy it.

I'm also wondering about this. I think that Eva is dying or that Niel and Eva live inside virtual reality where they live out their dreams. In their they are like Gods and can do whatever they want unlike the real world where they have to obey the rules. You can tell this because Neil has no problem doing whatever he wants inside your conscience and Eva made Zombievas. You would think someone who has the power to make you die believing in anything (even if you don't remember it because you are unconscious.) would be more careful then to stage a dramatic Show staging as an astronaut or even go inside your brain and stop someone from existing.

I know if someone just disappeared in front of me I would probably have a heart attack. The whole thing is based on believing that what is happening is real and I would probably have a fake real heart attack that was believable enough to kill me in reality as well as in my "dream".

This is later reference in various areas as they both excibit rather curious behavior towards each other. Similar to them being indifferent about any sort of relationship they have; be it a mutual friendship or a teacher mentor type thing.

At one point they mention about having past issues with the machine. Which gets clarified later as it "being good for half a year" after calling Maintenance. This means they have had issues with past clients using the machine. They even reference someone else as a past issue that they can not forget.

Later they totally forget about the machine causing trouble at all as to seem like everything has gone back to normal. The machine was referencing their current state of emotion. They really wanted to see what "Johns" childhood was like so the machine made it so that "they HAD to figure out how to SEE it". Which they did.

There are other areas to prove that both of them are willing participants inside a virtual reality scenario and not one involved as "helping old people have wish fulfillment."

NOW- Tell me what is one day that would be really really super nice to do for someone else?

You could give candy to a kid (referenced at the start ) or you could help an old lady cross the street. So you see helping old people would be considered something of a virtue. So even though they are in virtual reality they don't want to be criminals or murderers they want to help people out but in the process they do bad things in order to do good things.

The idea gets further explained with the ending where it leaves you with the feeling that even though all was done the only person that noticed anything wrong was Neil. If you remember correctly Neil is the person in charge of the machine and Eva is the person that wanders your dreams. (They are given certain titles in the game.)

In minisode 1 it is Neil that makes a game for Eva. Neil is creating a virtual world for her. In the beginning there are people throwing tomatoes at the building. The tomatoes signify their emotions for the real world and Sigmund their emotion for the virtual reality world.

Eva and Neil feel hated by the real world so much that the real world assaults them.

In Minisode 1 Eva goes to the party first. This proves that Eva is the protagonist of the show because "Everything is for her." Neil doesn't get the spotlight. Eva solved the issue with "John". Eva solved the problem of what happened during "Johns" childhood. It is Eva's need for closure that caused the machine to break and for then to HAVE to figure out his childhood. If you remember it is Neil that takes the "This is all fun and games approach". He yells out Hadouken and Hulk Smash, changed the title of the movie "Because the movie was a bad movie anyways.", and it is he that acts like an astronaut.

It is Eva decision to blame everything on River while Neils decision is to blame everything on Anya. She even states "You only have one brother there are plenty of Rivers." Even if that holds some statement I am sure that there is only 1 River. The author makes it clear because of the touching scene of when they met and all the failed attempts to go to the Moon. John's entire life, even with Joey, was to remember River. That moment was so deep into his conscience that even all the medication didn't make him forget.

Eva removes River and thus John finally goes to the Moon. Eva "solved" the issue.

The blue and yellow rabbit has a blue head and a yellow body. The blue head signifies Eva is in charge of the ideas (the mind) and the yellow body signifies Neil doing all the work (the body).

In Minisode 2 the real world has gotten "harsher" and you can tell Neil is really struggling with Eva. Eva tries to make it seem like it is all Neils fault by blaming it on his personality. Neil being unreceptive of Eva. In other words Neil doesn't try to cater to Eva like a courtship.
He tries to dump water on her head TWICE. Makes HER get the roadkill. Complains about her gift. Tells her to "Never do that again". This is when Eva finally lets her emotions known and tells him he can leave if he wants too.

This is a real common issue with two people that are unattractive to each other physically but are attracted to each other due to other things. The attraction is the careless nature, the freedom of thought, the ability to "do whatever you want" and know that the other person will still be there.

The moral of "To the Moon" in a nutshell.

It is Eva that freaks out about seeing herself, but Neil has people that call and don't say a word (or is it Eva I forgot 0_0). Neil has a machine stashed behind his "Homemade Ketchup" which he uses. Eva has a family that loves her and keeps her occupied and even has a sister which fills in the role of Joey. She is passionate and makes decisions that Eva reluctantly does. Neil on the other hand has issues with his family. "Gets caught playing video games all the time". He treats his life as a comedy, lying to his coworkers about rumors and even joking about the power supply.

My biggest reason for this logic is that at the end of Minisode 2 we get a brief flash which clearly shows Eva in a chair in some dark room with a VR on her head. At the bottom right is someone else with a VR but you can't really make out their form.

Eva looks old in the flashback. There was no bed with anyone dying in it. ANDDDDD

EVA WASN'T BEHIND A "MACHINE" UNIT ITSELF. She was just wearing the helmet.









[TL DR] Eva is living out a fantasy where she gets to play God with Neil.

They facade around as "doing it for old people" when in reality it is for themselves. They are developing feelings for each other due to the way they handle their "cases" in which the last one was a romantic story. The machine is having trouble forecasting their intent so it mixes random elements to try and put them together as much as possible. In the end Neil is providing the technology for Eva and it is he that notices when things go wrong. The tells for Neil are more physical then metaphysical. Eva has a "flash of herself" appear and disappear but Neil has actual evidence stored on the power generator. Their VR machines are getting old so they are experiencing technical issues. According to the game they have been inside for at least 2 years. The machine was only good for half a year. Eva looked healthy, but old to me in the Minisode two flash back leading me to believe she is inside of it willingly. Sigmund is their virtual reality world which allows them to live out various fantasies (like see the world) and the protesters are the real world taking it's toll on their world. Eva see's it as a menace getting worse but Neil see's it as an opportunity to make Ketchup which he does. Eva is slowly losing her mind while Neil is having technical issues. He has trouble with the machine in To the Moon at the start then gets brought up again at the end, he has an unfinished game for Eva in Minisode 1, and he has issues with the VR helmet in Minisode 2. He has a malfunction with the generator and he shut down the generator himself some how. All technical related problems not metaphysical problems such as Eva. Deja Vu with the squirrel, the boulder being made of air (what she thought it was was not what it actually was), seeing herself in the real world.

Eva doesn't want to leave her fantasy and Neil has to stay with her. She has a hard time figuring it out because whatever she thinks is the right thing is on the grounds of it being wrong to begin with. But because it is her fantasy whatever she does ends up fixing the problem.

[magmaxz]

I dunno, what confuses me is with the minisode 2 ending... if Neil is really messing with the machine though, maybe they could get around the barrier of not freezing up the dying person and have them do things in it still?? That would explain them both seeing doubles.

[EdgyKoala]

I have a feeling that an earlier job affected Neil, and he is using painkillers to cope with his feelings. If you remember, he mentioned the job had been stressful ever since a previous patient named Nora. That statement combined with his slightly suicidal comment about overdosing rather than becoming an addict leads me to believe he is using the medication for psychological pain.

The heartbeat in the end of the story before taking more painkiller is interesting. It could simply be an indication of his need to take the pills or could mean something else. People will often develop bad habits when they know the end is nigh.

[Daniel Mtanous - USA - INACTIVE]

It is most likely a plot reference to when someone swigs a drink out of a bottle of liquor when something unusual or strange occurs. Instead of liquor he pops a painkiller because he has that "Oh she is dying and I haven't done anything about it feeling."

I don't remember Neil ever seeing doubles.

[Adustus]

After playing the minisodes; this is my idea;

It seems clear that Neil has something wrong with him, and that he has feelings for Eva. He was also being pretty shift in the second minisode, which led me to think that...well, I don't remember the exact words, but there was a conversation Eva had in the first minisode with one of the doctors about how it was too bad they could fix the way things were in peoples' memories, but not in real life...tangentially, maybe Neil is trying to manipulate the machine to fix what actually happened in the real world, not just in memories. Whether it's to fix whatever drove him and his parents apart, or to bring him and Eva together, or to cure whatever disease he has...that causes the glitches that we see in the second minisode.

Neil is an incredibly troubled character who hides behind a facade. He has a lot of things that he wants to fix, but he also keeps to himself out of fear. It's my belief that what he's hiding from Eva is his efforts to adapt the machine to change the real world.

[Daniel Mtanous - USA - INACTIVE]

@lordJackal

At the very end of minisode two you can clearly see and elderly Eva sitting in a chair in the darkness.

[Arancii]

Originally posted by araisikewai:

Originally posted by sushia11:

But...there's one other very strange thing. At the end when Neil ans Eva are standing on the lookout point, and the screen flashes red. At this moment, there is an exactly identical model of Neil standing behind them on the bridge. Why? This supports the idea that Neil is dying, and his life is being "fixed".

There's actually 1 stranger thing on the bridge scene that nobody pointed out yet. Such a HUGE conflict on the bridge scene actually. Did you remember when the car hit Joey; Neil pointed out that it's strange and should be impossible that they can still watch the scene with Johnny's unconscious. It was only until Eva pointed out that it wasn't Johnny that the accident scene makes sense.

If that's so: How could there be a bridge scene in the first place? Shouldn't it never existed in Johnny's memory? Since John wasn't there, and was never there at all. Not even in the alternate memory. And at that exact time, John was in the shuttle. If they were watching John's alternate memory, shouldn't they watch it INSIDE the shuttle?

Well,Eva created a completely new hall when she needed to move River,she could have simply created a new bridge in the memory.

[Seiba]

Hey! I just finished the game and I noticed the same thing. I did some research hoping that since the game was some years old something about that scene or a sequel would have come out or at least been anounced. It turns out we are lucky because earlier this year Kan teased the sequel called "Finding paradise" due to release between the end of 2016 and early 2017. We'll see what he got for us!

[Arancii]

Originally posted by dalexandre_12:

Hey! I just finished the game and I noticed the same thing. I did some research hoping that since the game was some years old something about that scene or a sequel would have come out or at least been anounced. It turns out we are lucky because earlier this year Kan teased the sequel called "Finding paradise" due to release between the end of 2016 and early 2017. We'll see what he got for us!

Let's hope this time Kan clarifies things for us.

[Mr. Nobody]

Originally posted by JeremiX_91:

Originally posted by dalexandre_12:

Hey! I just finished the game and I noticed the same thing. I did some research hoping that since the game was some years old something about that scene or a sequel would have come out or at least been anounced. It turns out we are lucky because earlier this year Kan teased the sequel called "Finding paradise" due to release between the end of 2016 and early 2017. We'll see what he got for us!

Let's hope this time Kan clarifies things for us.

I think the whole story behind Neil/Eva is going to be an overarching plot line through the series, and nothing indicates Finding Paradise is the final episode.

I expect Finding Paradise to be set up similar to TtM. We'll have a self contained story focused on the life of the new patient, with hints scattered here or there regarding Eva/Neil's relationship and situation.

By the end, I expect we'll still have more questions than answers regarding events in Minisode 2.

[Arancii]

Originally posted by Mr. Nobody:

Originally posted by JeremiX_91:

Let's hope this time Kan clarifies things for us.

I think the whole story behind Neil/Eva is going to be an overarching plot line through the series, and nothing indicates Finding Paradise is the final episode.

I expect Finding Paradise to be set up similar to TtM. We'll have a self contained story focused on the life of the new patient, with hints scattered here or there regarding Eva/Neil's relationship and situation.

By the end, I expect we'll still have more questions than answers regarding events in Minisode 2.

MInisode 2 was just... strange.
I expected to be something more like a spin-off, something just comical but it just gave me more questions.

[Emil]

Fun going back to these old threads. So many of these theories had been answered