The Ending (Spoilers)

[jrot]

I just finished this game and I honestly don't know what to think about the ending. On one hand, it was just some dying man's fantasy, but I can't help but feel a little bit disgusted by the fact that they erased large chunks of his memory just to have him go to the moon. He didn't actually want to go to the moon, but was rather just desperately trying to remember what River was trying to tell him the entire time.

And they launched him into space AND deleted all of those moments from his memory. I don't know. For awhile I thought this was intentional, but when I come on forums, I see people reacting mostly positive towards the ending. Like it was happy.

I know I'm not the only one who feels this way. What are your thoughts?

[sushia11]

The theme of this game should be understood to get the most out of this ending. Kan recognized the obvious ethical issue regarding the re-writing of someone's memories simply to attain happiness.

Eva and Neil represent two conflicting views. This is first shown at the scene when John informs River he has decided to buy a house to keep watch over Anya.

Eva is happy for them, while Neil expresses dismay over what is to follow. His standpoint is that the ending is what matters. Eva opposes this, stating that it is only the HAPPY moments that should be the focus of life.

Later on, when the scientists are observing Johnny just before he first meets River, Neil makes a statement expressing sadness that he forgot all these wonderful memories.

The Beta-Blockers are the real core of this theme. They were taken to take away the pain from the loss of Joey. But in doing so, all the memories worth keeping were affected too. But as Eva put it, they were, "Fuzzily unlinked. Not erased."

Now what did John REALLY want? He wanted to go to the Moon. He just didn't know WHY. This whole operation actually supplied him with the knowledge he lost way back in his youth. Normally you may have a stronger point, but here this particular trip of soul-searching (I get the irony) lifted the veil on what was cloaked, and supplied him with the knowledge of what was really important to him.

Now I understand how fine the line is between the Beta-Blockers and what Neil and Eva have just done. The difference is that the Betas were taken to hide what shouldn't have been. In an ordinary circumstance, your view may be well-reasoned. But the operation performed by the scientists counteracted the Betas, and actually helped John understand himself more.

The theme of To the Moon is actually the title of Laura Shigihara's "Everthing's Alright" track, that plays in the montage when River is deleted/moved. Yes, there were a metric ton of bumps in the road, but "at this moment," John is happy. And River too, I might add, now that John has finally figured out what she was trying to tell him for so long. Shining her lights, if you will.

[Anomalous Underdog]

jrot, your stance is basically the same with the character Neil's. He didn't want erasing memories either. I agree when John said he wanted to go to the moon, it's not like he wanted to be an austonaut. His repressed memories of his first encounter with River was just nagging him.

But as you know, the problem was that the contract says the client has to go to the moon.

If any, the problem here is that it seems the way contracts are made, they take the client's wishes too literally. It should be understandable that concessions have to be made if the client has distorted memories.

Eva decided to play it safe and follow things by the book, but she did her best to fulfill the client's real wishes, while following the contract. It wasn't the best outcome, it was understandably a compromise.

EDIT: ♥♥♥♥ I didn't realize this was an old thread. Sorry for the necro.

[jrot]

Haha, turbo necro. I know it was supposed to be some sort of compromise, but man did it bother the ♥♥♥♥ out of me.

[404_Not_Found]

I enjoyed the necro discussion :P

I liked the story, but I don't view the ending as happy - I view it as disturbing in a way that brings out conflicting stances in me, and that's what I like about it. On one hand, a wish was granted, but there's always the bitter-sweet knowledge that it's fake, even though it seemed real at the climactic ending when a lonely old man can die in peace. It seems to be an issue without resolution, and it results in me feeling powerful emotions, as well as deep thoughts, and this is the mark of a good story in my opinion.

The fact that other people debate the ending is actually helping to validate that claim, actually, Clear-cut happy endings bore me because they spur no thought, but these controversial plots inspire people to analyze themselves and their views, as well as the views of others. What more noble achievement exists for any writer?

Oh by the way, you shold all go play the free games made by the same guy. They're really fun. :P /productplacement

[sushia11]

It's ALIVE.
Actually, I really like this ending. If you think about it, this fulfilled River's wish as well. She wanted to tell John how they first came together, but couldn't. While how they met was not the same in his reconstructed memories, he recalled some of the details regardng their first meeting. The beta-blockers erased his memories; The 'operation' restored some of the knowledge he lost.

[FunGus]

Originally posted by Kaze:

I liked the story, but I don't view the ending as happy - I view it as disturbing in a way that brings out conflicting stances in me, and that's what I like about it.

That's exactly how I felt as well. The ending if you look at it in pure semantics, is a happy ending because the person left alive is allowed to die happy without hindering the happiness in others (appart from Neil's uncomfort) but at the same time, it's not real. River never got to die truely happy, no matter how you look at it but John gets to believe that she did. Kinda a "Is the glass half full or half empty?" kind of thing.

[LucidSquirtle]

I felt the ending was really sad. Even though they switched around John's memories and he (assumingly) died happily. In the real world, River still died knowing that John didn't remember their first meeting. Sure, they gave John is brother back in his memories, but his ending up with River didn't seem as special. And then again, it never happened. Very sad.

EDIT: I now realize that the person above me said the same thing.

[Brorandy]

cool game

[LucidSquirtle]

Originally posted by Whisperling:

There's a scene well after John dies, of him reuniting with River in the sky. The happiness of the ending I suppose requires one question.

Was that scene for the player, or was it for John and River? The game has never shown us anything other than what the characters see up until that point. I'm not a spiritual person, but I believe that might indicate that there is a sort of spirituality within the world the game takes place in. So that's John reuniting with River in the afterlife.

If that is the case, the ending is a purely happy one. John finally understands what River was trying to tell him, and they're together in whatever waits after death. River died unhappy, but found her happiness when John followed after her as a result of Eva and Neil's work.

The only thing I don't like about the game are the unobtainable achievements the developers put in to I suppose tease at their fans.

Oh. Was that scene after the credits? I must have missed it.

[quincyrich1]

i struggled to understand the ending but sushia11 puts it well. and brought me peace.

Originally posted by sushia11:

It's ALIVE.
Actually, I really like this ending. If you think about it, this fulfilled River's wish as well. She wanted to tell John how they first came together, but couldn't. While how they met was not the same in his reconstructed memories, he recalled some of the details regarding their first meeting. The beta-blockers erased his memories; The 'operation' restored some of the knowledge he lost.

before he couldn't remember meeting her or why he liked her. but going to the moon with her was there meetup point and it brought back those good memories like when they first met. He could finally understand his wife and can rest easy now even if some memories are fabricated to be able to remember.

on a side note i don't think his memories where deleted they where merely placed elsewhere. He subconsciously knows they are real. He has more relived his life than restarted it.

[Mantosasto]

This has already being necroed twice so I'll chime in so I don't create another similar thread.

I agree the story is good regardless of the ending being happy or sad, just for the sole fact of making us think.

I'm more on Neil's camp I think. Ultimatelly what springs to my head is the question: Do experiences matter? I believe they are what makes us us. So memories in a way are a register of who we are. By changing them, we turn in a different person. Did John die happy, or John died the moment his memories changed and a new him was created, a new him that died happy believing in a life that never happened?

[Super Kelly Sis]

Another thing I'd like to add is that despite some memories being changed, at the end he got to meet her again in his fantasy, even if he got his wish, John just couldn't forget about River, and died while holding the hand of that 'memory' of her.

[Michael]

This thread was quite old before the recent post, so we're locking it to prevent confusion.