My thoughts on future improvements

[David & Simon Squires]

Sadly I'm currently passing on this year's version of the game. I know Cyanide tries to make improvements with limited resources, and I know they also read this discussion board. Thus, here are my thoughts on required improvements for future versions:

Finances:
The whole budget thing doesn't work well. Excess money just builds up and you can't do anything with it. Either you should be able to use excess on wages, or there needs to be other things to invest money in. I'd also add that the annual sponsorship renewal is tiring and it doesn't work well for a performing team. You can get to World Tour level, but have a tiny budget (and no way of upping it). There should be coding in the game such that the sponsor money will adjust. Thus if I'm a continental team and performing well the potential sponsor will give me X if I stay continental or y if I move up.

Rider contracts:
I should be able to renew current riders at any time. Personally I don't like the whole dossier points system. It is just hassle and adds nothing to the game in my opinion. The game should be trying to be more realistic and this just does the opposite. This also feeds into the finances thing, but somehow the link between contracts and sponsorship needs to be done differently.

Sponsors:
This is just too random. There is seemingly no logic as to who will offer sponsorship. I'd prefer if there were multi-year contracts firstly (with budget changes built in for promotion/relegation). Then, over the course of a rolling year, based on the riders in your team and the results you get, you'd then get interest from related sponsors. So, for example, I have a couple of Belgian riders who get decent results and as a team we perform well in Belgian races - thus when it comes to new sponsor opportunities it is more likely that one of those options would be Belgian.

Sponsor goals is something I absolutely hate in its current form. It is just a hassle and does not add to the game. How about something like this instead.... At the start of the season we get details of key priorities for the sponsors. This could be performing across races in specific countries, performing in specific races, improving the fame of riders, etc. The difference though is that I'd accumulate sponsor happiness through my actions in a race. Lets say for example that I'm UnoX and we are doing the Tour. I go into breakaways on stages. That builds sponsor happiness. Maybe I hold the mountains jersey for a day or two. Maybe I win a stage (which would be enough to get sponsor happiness to green). Conversely, I'm UAE, with bigger expectations. Pog crashes out on the second stage. I still manage to get a top 10 with Yates. I get three stage wins, etc. Thus I do enough to make the sponsor happy. I actually think this type of system would be far more rewarding and encourages you to do things during a race (or get more creative towards the end of a race where the sponsor isn't happy enough yet).

Planning and Happiness.
Where riders have favourite races that should be reflected on the planner. It could be semi-transparent blocks in a slightly different colour. in the background for example The same would be done with objectives. At the moment you end up jumping between screens and season planning is something you dread.

Riders get unhappy because they aren't racing (which is annoying when they are injured), but this doesn't reflect real life where riders are racing less and often with six plus week breaks during the season.

I absolutely hate the screen where you have to select the rider preparation percentage at the start of January. Lets be honest, this would have been reflected in training before January, based on schedule, and that is the key point, schedule. I plan my rider schedules and that percentage should be based on them. If I have riders scheduled for Tour Down Under on the cut off date, they have high preparation. If their first race is in March, their initial condition is lower. Simple, does the job and one less hassle to deal with...

Winter:
Currently the winter period serves no purpose. Either it should be eliminated (i.e. you jump from 1 November straight to 1 January) or you add things to do. This might include using some of that spare cash to send riders to the wind tunnel for example. Team winter training camps (which could boost morale and help development). Some sort of interaction with key riders about races they want to do. For example, I might have Hugh Carthy as a team leader. He wants to do the Giro, Dauphine and Vuelta next year, which I say yes to (and that is then automatically added to his calendar when I hit 1 Jan). Illness and injury could actually impact a rider's plans before we get to the start of the season.

Promotion and Relegation:
Put simply, rankings are currently irrelevant. Promotion and relegation should be based on team points ranking. If I hire riders with ranking points (or lose one with points) that could affect me for next year. Where ranking points could matter outside of promotion/relegation is what I referenced earlier with sponsors. Lets say I'm a continental team and one of my riders is at the top of the rankings - I get additional sponsor happiness because of that (similarly if my team is ranking well).

I think that is more than enough from now (and who knows if Cyanide will actually read this). Honestly, I could write pages more on things I think could make the game better. Of the above the two things I'd most like to see is promotion/relegation sorted and a revamp of sponsor happiness.

[Oggmeista]

Odd there's nothing there about the actual gameplay, or the lack change, of any description, visually, audibly there's virtually no difference for the last, how many years?, i lose count.

somethings have improved though, no longer see groups behind the peloton, catch 4 mins in a km, like i've seen once or twice. which means ai pacing is better, but some of the logic is nuts, why would you work at the head of the peloton, when your team has or even is the only rider in the breakaway?, that's the last thing your team be logically inclined to do..
Also how can the stamina bar not be increasing all the way down 10km of mountain downhill with effort bar set to about 50 or less?, no recovery whatsoever. that's illogical right?.and a few other things.

edit can you tell me the point of mm?, middle mountain?, just what is the point of it?, for a few years now if all the issues were sorted especially the ai logic when playing as i highlighted above, what i think would be a cool varibable would be rain, ie wet road performance, which would modify most other stats but for each rider on wet roads , and maybe change the probability of falls etc, but imho right now the broken mechanics are more important to get right..and just some changes ,, don't know about you but i am positively fed up with hearing the same exact commentary remarks for the last decade...i mean really?

[Oggmeista]

Can someone explain the point of mm?, middle mountain?, just what is the point of it?, for a few years now if all the issues were sorted especially the ai logic when playing as i highlighted above, what i think would be a cool variable would be rain, ie wet road performance, which would modify most other stats but for each rider on wet roads , and maybe change the probability of falls etc, but imho right now the broken mechanic and logic are far more important to get right..and just some changes you know? , I mean don't know about you but i am positively fed up with hearing the same exact commentary remarks for the last decade...i mean really?

[David & Simon Squires]

Yeah, I could have made some comments about gameplay, but chose not to. The reason i made the post in the first place is that i chose not to buy this year because i don't like how promotion and relegation works and with the new ranking "features" this year it was a huge disappointment to not see that addressed. I guess my point is that there often seems to be effort to add "features" that do little or nothing to enhance the gameplay. The previously introduced dossier and youth scouting systems are perfect examples. They are just add hassle to the game. If it doesn't make the game more enjoyable or easier to play it shouldn't be added.

As for in-race, one of my bug bears is the water bottle system. You end up on certain races having to try to time when to send a rider back for bottles, then he ends up off the back. Personally I'd get rid of it - again it adds less than it detracts.

[Dee-Jay]

OP - some good suggestions. I think the "outside of race" management could do with some massive amounts of work, I've moaned about that for a number of years and whilst they have added some things I'd like to see more. I never play pro cyclist mode (doesn't appeal), I'd honestly prefer Cya to focus on the core management mode first and then look at improving the pro mode.
With games of the calibre of the best sports management games - (that's football manager, OOTP baseball) showing how things are done, PCM just falls down in the team managerment/general management areas. And there are a lot of things they could implement fairly easily. Agree with the sponsors, I too think there could be more done. Make the riders and sponsors a bit more human, get rid of the bike supplier/technical aspects (do they actual impact the race?) or make them work.
Add sports science staff and facilities that has a broad effect on your team - again it's kind of there with the staff and training camps but just not detailed enough for a management game.
I'd like to see more done around other objectives, particularly for smaller teams in big races like adding combativity awards, objectives of riders spending time in breakaways - stuff like that matters to small teams, not just winning or placing in races or stages. Get the sponsors name and logo on the TV. Give credit for someone riding bravely in a break for 250km before getting caught by the peloton 300m from the line, just capture a bit more of the magic and romance of the sport.
Would love to see a leadership stat and a race intelligence/racecraft attribute, we only have the Baroudeur attribute in that line at the moment.

And yes, the water runs are terrible terrible things, God help you if you're in a big group on a long climb and you need water. Send a domestique back to get it and he falls off his bike with exhaustion before he can get it to his leader!

Originally posted by Oggmeista:

Can someone explain the point of mm?, middle mountain?, just what is the point of it?, for a few years now if all the issues were sorted especially the ai logic when playing as i highlighted above, what i think would be a cool variable would be rain, ie wet road performance, which would modify most other stats but for each rider on wet roads , and maybe change the probability of falls etc, but imho right now the broken mechanic and logic are far more important to get right..and just some changes you know? , I mean don't know about you but i am positively fed up with hearing the same exact commentary remarks for the last decade...i mean really?

I actually like this addition. It provides a middle climb category between the puncheur type climbs of just 1 or 2 KM and the ultra long sort of GT climbs of the kind you get in the Pyrenees etc. Sounds good in theory, I'll know better when I've had chance to put time into the new edition, but I'm guessing the attribute used (hill, MM, Mountain) will done the same way as previously but just between the other two.

[Oggmeista]

Originally posted by David & Simon Squires:

Yeah, I could have made some comments about gameplay, but chose not to. The reason i made the post in the first place is that i chose not to buy this year because i don't like how promotion and relegation works and with the new ranking "features" this year it was a huge disappointment to not see that addressed. I guess my point is that there often seems to be effort to add "features" that do little or nothing to enhance the gameplay. The previously introduced dossier and youth scouting systems are perfect examples. They are just add hassle to the game. If it doesn't make the game more enjoyable or easier to play it shouldn't be added.

As for in-race, one of my bug bears is the water bottle system. You end up on certain races having to try to time when to send a rider back for bottles, then he ends up off the back. Personally I'd get rid of it - again it adds less than it detracts.

Did you also know that now if you don't fully race every stage you lose fitness peak progress, i mean why do this?, to force players to race boring ie imho flat stages, when you are a climber, because why? changes like this only serve to frustrate players like you eluded to , they do "nothing" for the game or the player whatsoever..

[Th0mazz0]

I agree 100%.

My biggest issue is the sponsoring. If I'm a Belgian team and I spent all my dossier points on Belgian riders, I don't need a South-African or Chinese sponsor to contact me.

Whenever your current sponsor is at their max budget and you need another to grow further, it is only logical that you'd get offers from the same country, as it is in real life.

Thankfully, these are things that can be addressed with the real time editor, but I prefer not to use it if it's not absolutely necessary.

[Dee-Jay]

Another thing I'd like to see is a practice road mode. In other words to be able to ride just a section of a stage (maybe 15km) to work on things like sprint trains etc, instead of having to do a full stage. Plus you can't do it with your full current lineup - you need to go into another game mode.

[Chrras]

I totally agree. Money just builds up, and you can do nothing with it. Please let us use our bank balance to sign new riders, maybe just as a signing bonus to encourage riders to accept a smaller salary? I am imagining like $5k/year increments, meaning that a 2-year contract would have a signing bonus with a one-time payment of $10k.

Or maybe enable us to invest, say, €1.2 million in getting an increased budget of €100k per month next year.

Furthermore, this has been suggested at least since PCM19, I would really like Cyanide to implement this

[RialBurial]

Why nobody is talking about the ♥♥♥♥ gameplay when in mountain stages? Please, fix this... all cyclists love mountain stages and it is frustrating to loose 90% of those with JV

[themuso]

I totally disagree with promotion/relegation being decided on ranking. It is far too easy to top the rankings imo and the current system, while not perfect, adds some needed difficulty in getting to the top making it satisfying when you do. Switch to ranking points and there will be no sense of achievement in getting to the top. I suppose most people start at the top and just want to stay there? I much prefer starting at the bottom.