Help for fighting Tezctlan in the mid/late game?

[ncarr99]

Pardon for the long message, but here we go.

A week or two ago I started a discussion about help fighting Tezctlan in the earlier parts of the game. I got a lot of good advice, much of which has been a big help. I still die to Tezctlan a lot, but it's more like 50% of the time instead of literally every time. They do still seem to be very "knife's edge" all the time, meaning at any given moment you're one bad move away from getting f'd up by some guy with a halberd, but meh, I suppose that's just Quasimorph in general.

Ironically the moment to moment fighting against them seems easier now that I'm trying to fight them after they teched up. The worst threat has always been the human cultists (Aspiring leaders or something?) that have full armor, 2-3 AP, and the halberds, but those guys are much more rare and have been mostly replaced by Jaguar/Eagle knights, which are tanky but slow. Plus now a lot of their numbers are made up of the exploding fat zombies - like wights from the old Myth games - which die easy.

That said there are a few concerns I could still use some advice for, if anyone is still around.

1. Ammunition/Supplies. I melee a lot against tez, but there are some enemies who I dare not let approach me (see #2), so I always try to bring either an energy weapon or a piercing gun. Problem is Tez doesn't drop ammo like other factions so I can't really resupply and on 3-4 floor missions often run out unless I bring like 4 extra stacks of ammo which is expensive and risky. Any tips for weapons or tactics that are more ammo efficient?

2. Crisis prevention. Is there anything you can do to really get out of a bad situation? Probably 90% of my deaths against Tezctlan can be summed up as "nasty melee guy manages to get close, hits me, I pain lock and die." Any 3 AP enemies that have an actual weapon and armor are very much a luck-based crapshoot, either I riddle them with holes immediately or they get close and kill me, you can't run away and if they reach you they tear you in half with pathetic ease. I've seen people suggest bringing water and painkillers to quickly heal wounds and negate pain - and that makes sense except it expends an AP to use those items, and I was already down an AP from pain to begin with, so I don't really have a chance to do anything after the healing. Best case they hit me and wound me again so I have to go back and use MORE water and painkillers in a vicious cycle until I run out, worst case they kill me outright on the second go around. Really in general painkillers are rarely useful, either the situation isn't bad enough to be worth using them or it's so bad that they won't change anything.

The Tez armor is good enough to make me nigh-immune to the poison guns, and enough to allow me to survive the occasional melee hit, but any situation where I get hit more than once by melee - either from multiple foes or one with multiple AP - is a situation where I may as well just immediately give up because there seems to be no way out of it. So I need either a better technique to escape or pointers on where to get armor that would better tank their melee while not sacrificing poison resist.

3. Good class/clone combos for Tez specifically. I've heard tunnel rats is generally OP and I just for the first time ever unlocked them. But tunnel rats use shotguns, which generally do cutting damage since flechette rounds are rare, and cutting is not great against Tez.

4. Fire. I haven't really tried it against them but suspect it would be useful. At the moment I have one single flamethrower and haven't seen any others in ages. Any good place/corp to consistently acquire flame weapons?

5. The bigger picture. It was suggested that I leave Tezctlan alone and build up before fighting them, so I did, with mixed success. I'm having a better time in the moment to moment fighting but the big picture has suffered. Even now that I have turned to fighting them Tez is currently ludicrously strong - 16,000 power and gaining 30 more every week, they own about 1/3 of the system. I only knock them down about 200 per succesful mission, so at their current rate of increase they recover from any losses I inflict very quickly unless I stay on them full time - which is costly because they still kill me pretty often and even when I win I expend a lot of weapons and supplies without getting many useful ones back since the halberds and poison guns - while awesome against everyone else - are useless against Tez and they don't carry many meds or the supplies I need to make more. The only factions that can resist them are Realware and Ancom, but even they are starting to be left in the dust. Everyone else is pathetically weak except Civil Resistance, who have low tech but have somehow hold on to a lot of territory and who also hate me. I tried so hard to help SBN stay strong so I could get energy weapons from them but they got hammered by the others and are pretty weak. I'm practically fighting Tez exclusively now, like 80% of my missions, and I'm only barely able to slow them down and only then with pretty significant casualties.

The economy has totally crashed - I presume because Civil resistance and Tez own so much of the map, most things are basically worthless now so it's hard for me to acquire good supplies even from the teched up companies. Tangential but related note but I would love to figure out a more consistent way to get certain crafting things like welders and armor/weapon packs because I would like to get a handful of specific upgrades. but those things practically never spawn - unlike other valuable crafting stuff you can't just break down another item to get them - yet another reason I wish we could just do away with the whole barter economy system and have a normal money economy where we could buy what we want, or if you're gonna make me barter at least let me choose what I get in return.

So...I dunno. Should I just be throwing myself at Tez and hope I can eventually do enough damage to weaken them? Should I try an indirect approach and just help Ancom and Realware in the hopes they'll start fighting back on their own? Alternatively would it be worth *turning* on either Ancom or Realware (just one or the other, not both, I still need SOMEONE to sell me stuff) with the knowledge that their troops would be high level and well-equipped and I could farm better gear that would make it easier to fight Tez? Are there specific planets I should focus on, in a earlier file I found a quest on Venus but I don't know if that would help me much. I admit I still spend probably 2/3s of my time on mars and it's moons because Tez is hard enough to fight without the extra resistance gains and a 2nd enemy faction I have to keep track of, I'm assuming that's a mistake but how big of one is it?

Or is it too late and I'm basically screwed? Fighting a losing existential war will be fun for a little while thematically, but if there's genuinely no hope then it'd be better to know now so I can take the current lessons and apply them to a fresh save - though I'd hate to restart *again*.

[Arsonium]

Yeah, I feel like painkillers should be instant (no AP cost) from fast slots to have any use other than removing nicotine addiction. The most OP thing about Tunnel Rats is Marauder perk so you can use any weapon or (assuming you have spare AI modules which you probably don't) you can slap the perk on any other class to make it OP as well. There are occasionally printers with flamethrowers so if you find one, better fill the entire inventory with them.

[Nightstrasza]

1. Try and get Enigma Supreme, you can get it from cracking Ancom skulls (or was it SBN, I forgot). It's 40-40 guaranteed damage, pierce, no reload but low durability. Bring gun parts, disassemble those few guns you find in chests or the floors or possessed that are in mission or rely on Shards you find from quasis.

2. Don't bother with painkillers and drugs for pain in general. Get the pain immunity clone, choose your favorite clone, use gene modding and put that trait on your favorite, done. This is the best trait (unless you never get hit then there are better obviously). This trait saves you from any AP loss which prevents you from losing even more hp and resources and so on and so forth. If you expect to be hit, go sprint, this gives you 3 AP and next turn pain will bring you to 2/3 instead of 1/2, this only applies if you don't have this pain immunity trait. Gavvakh removes 100 pain on use, hold onto those during missions. Having your thigh I believe wounded reduces your AP from sprint back to max run, this can't be prevented other than not being hit. Scouts of Hades class has a 100% dodge boost and 100% damage boost perks on a long cooldown but they will help you maybe dodge the consecutive hits therefor prevent pain and painlock then be able to recover. Also, for crisis prevention, have burst shotgun, the more they spit out the better (or any gun that can cause multiple chances of knockback), it doesn't matter the damage, the old Jeffy will not just wound their whole body, making them weaker and in pain, it will also knock them the hell away, that's how I deal with these melees that got too close to me and I can't kill guaranteed, I switch to sprint, cha-♥♥♥♥♥ (are you for real?, this is censored?, I guess bcs china or something?, new word for the "don't baby sit me trash steam" list) and send a face full of shotgun their way.

3. Tunnel rats is OP no matter what, if you enjoy being op then it doesn't matter, just take them, level it up, the shotgun will shred them no matter what. Assuming you got the Jeffhammer-C22 and max level of the perk. I don't use rats nor do I bring any classes/clones for specific jobs so can't advice here well other than rats op, yes. I just chosen my favorite clone, Mirzia, modified her, done. Then use Scouts of Hades for everything.

5. I never traded so I dunno why you need trading, I simply bashed skulls and got my loot by force. Did you unlock Xiomara?, did you help her? She gives a weapon that will melt anyone that isn't poison immune and she herself will fight Tez too. Also, other factions won't target Tez, there's no "humanity unite!" or whatever, this is capitalism, they only care about money and their own profit, they will target Tez more often if there's more Tez on the map bcs the chance of targeting Tez is higher but they won't specifically target Tez just bcs big competition. I also previously told that to just gear up and fight Tez later, not force it, well, you see, I don't die, you say you die, just don't die and they won't grow. I go on a planet, I do a mission I wanted there, I spam radar and do all misisons for Civilian Resistance and Feathered Masks and once entire planet is full of missions that I don't want to do I go somewhere else. This way if there was Tez on that planet, the other factions get to have their missions and a chance to beat Tez while I'm away and while I do it, around -1k power. Flying around progresses factions a lot, spam radar, don't die, beat them down.

There's no being "screwed". Venusian quasimorphs get their tech fairly early and then... they never upgraded from that point, their trades do but their weapons and armor in missions not so they quickly become weaker than the humans, I rather do Tez mission rather than fight Realware, I probably won't do a Realware defense mission, I will gladly do a Tez defense mission tho, humans are just massively op compared to quasimorphs. And back to the screwed part, no, beating them up the further they are will drop them further down, tech can't be really reversed even if there are ways to drop it down it only grows, the drop down is too slow but power, at the start you drop them by mere tens or hundreds, once they are at the top and powerful you drop them by thousands per victory.

[Elims]

1. Did you start throwing melee weapons? You can use a Helper (Servo Backpack) to carry one more melee weapon for the pure intent of throwing it. You can even carry a Helper inside your Fighter in case supply starts getting low.
I consider Pierce damage better than Beam damage because of the wounds they produce. Pierce wounds damage the foes per AP used, so as long the Aspiring Mistress are not in melee distance with you and have space to retreat, you can shoot and run until they bleed out without risks but it use way more kcal. (Angel of Spades is better for this.)

2. You need a weapon to kill 3 AP foes and a Punisher can do the job. If you miss killing blow, just full auto it. Best offense is best defense. Carrying these purple "granades" can work too. Or Molotov + Flashbangs... Or Granade Launcher with Flashbangs...
Crisis Prevention is always expensive, unless you use Scouts of Hades.

3. Scouts of Hades has the most powerful Crisis Prevention skill in the game, Combat Focus, which allow you to survive even the Elevator Reception ones and combined with Blind Rage, you can easily clear nearby danger in 10 turns. The downside is the intense kcal consumption (You want the skills ready all the times, so you will find yourself skipping turns often after activating your skills).
You can modify Reflexes into the Scouts of Hades to maximize your survival chances.
Scouts of Hades + Dodge Master + Helper + Punisher.
Scouts of Hades + -2 AP Reload + Vest with -2 AP Reload + Moon Crossbow (Be aware of the weapon durability).
Angel of Spades + 2 Range Distance. The far from you the foes bleed, better.
Downside: 7.97 dependent. Total Glass Cannon.
Eclipse Blade + Combat Focus + Insanity + Melee oriented clone.

4. It works, as long q-meter is low enough. In defense missions against Teztclan is the most effective and depending of the map, a single incendiary granade from a Phoenix Brigade can clear a wave. Just bring a decent energy weapon to finish high HP ones with guns before they shoot you.

5. You took the worst advice I ever seen... It probably came from someone with a modified shotgun with 200+ minimum damage lol. Oh you can still get thing back as long you have the mission generator upgraded to the max. With 26 in-game hours you can generate 3 missions that can be used to laser focus some Teztclan territory until you finish a Conquest mission and move to the next territory. Also sabotage missions can drop way more than 200 power but you don't have the luxury to choose anyway. Just don't do Defense mission for them.

[BubblezCJ]

Yeah, every mission against Tez is tight. They die (relatively) easily, but they hit so hard in melee that so do you, whatever your resistances.
The good news is that waiting on them doesn't matter because their tech level doesn't affect them. Higher power does seem to put more bodies in missions (which makes them longer, which gives you more opportunities to screw up once and die), but there's no way to solve that except to fight them.

As for how to fight them, take lots of bullets. Sure, it's expensive, but you want the stations cleared of monsters so more profitable opponents can take their place. It's an investment!
Guns that shoot 7.97 are nice, but Assault Rifles burn ammo. I'd recommend upgrading a .42 pistol because the ammo is cheaper to make and still does Pierce damage. Don't worry too much about sending good armour since resisting their melee is less important than just not getting hit and you can get poison resist from their drops.

And remember: just never make any mistakes. Missing a shot counts as a mistake.

[Still]

Eclipse Kenzie with one of their axes/halberds is a solid choice, assuming you've unlocked him. The chance to cleave multiple enemies with it can be a lifesaver. I usually mix armor too, like helmet and pants will be Tez pieces, the chest and feet will be whatever high physical res armors I have like Arbiter. Poison isn't as huge a threat as long as you know when to back off and bait them out, the two pieces are there as a buffer against mistakes. One of the vests that provide res like Chainmail also helps, seeing as though this would be mostly melee.

Crisis prevention also comes down to how you clear floors. You really don't want to give their units an avenue to flank you with their 3AP units and stomp you. Obviously, not much you can do if there's a corridor with a bend and two doors at the end other than take it real slow and try to gauge their positions. Maybe lock the doors, clear the rest of the corridor, then double back if you need to. Big thing is to always have somewhere to fall back to if multiple enemies start chasing you. Even against 3 AP units, if you can funnel them at the elevator room, you have better odds.

Fire is also solid. Fire nades and molotovs aren't too hard to craft. Some locations have fabricators that require like cans, feces and gunpowder to make fire nades, easy to mass that way but cheaper to craft at the ship if you can get the chip. Molotovs also have insane spread, so gotta be sure enemies don't drag the fire to a tile right next to you and possibly spread it. Flamethrower has the same risk, but can be useful if you can shoot it off a few tiles away and lock a door before they can get close enough to stop you.

For what it's worth, I had Tez at around the same power you currently do. It took a lot of missions (the scanner upgrade definitely helped here to generate them), but I steadily dropped them to around 4-5k power and 5 assets. Unfortunately, it doesn't look like you can finish them off, so you would have to eventually come back to curb stomp them into the ground, hopefully with better gear/mercs/upgrades.

[phoagne]

Destroying a faction completely is a planned feature.

[Stealthkibbler]

I recommend carrying atleast 1 dr jones surgical kit on a high value character. It removes pains, fully heals the target injury and restores 100 health, i was getting obliterated by realware riflemen until i started running molotovs and surgical kits.

If you can get 30-40 fire resist on your armor you can throw thermal grenades or molotovs at your feet and the DOT from flames will melt pretty much all tetch enemies as they will run straight through the flames to get to you while you can freely move through it.

Molotovs can be made at workbenches they cost 1 bottle, 2 rags and some fuel. Just hold onto all your bottles from alcohol and keep cracking open alcohol crates, you will accrue a large stock of bottles quickly then take them into a small mission and craft a whole inventory of them. Because fuel and rags can be found in almost every mission.

Alternatively rat running against the civil resistance gets you a bunch of molotovs too, they will have them in vast numbers.

Put the molotovs in your hotbar so you can use them while sprinting. When you start getting surrounded you can toss one down, they stack up to 3.

Enigma supreme is also a good recommendation but id suggest getting it from daydream chems because their guys are a lot easier to fight, mostly weaker goons with strong poison weapons. They wear low grade merc gear and their hazard suits have virtually no protection against most guns.

If you are having ammo issues maybe focus on getting the recyling upgrade for your ship, it will let you deconstruct bullets 1:1 and later with more upgrades let you multiply powder from bullets. I have an entire cargo tab just full of rows of gunpowder because i was not expecting the game to multiply all the rifle anmo i was deconstructing by 4x

[zverozvero]

Month too late but i still want to praise LPS-whip so here goes.

Raiding industrious zones may spawn LPS whip in crates, on floor or salvaged by scavengers upgrade (even very early in the game - got my first on Mars 2-3 runs in). Otherwise its T5 Corewards mining laser. It dont need ammo, hits 32-42 beam and starts with 2 beams adding 1 more for each consecutive attack.
Francis with +120% weapon durability is obviously great here. No risk taking - just break walls and doors.
Keep something not-beam in pocket in case of spiders. LPS may kill them if they ignite but knife, axe or cheap shotgun for crawlers is good to have.

Scouts class helps to recover from bad situations, Ghosts may help to avoid them. Rat is bit of inbetween.

Grenade launcher with stun grenades in second weapon slot is magnificent. Instant aoe stun for 4 action. Takes some luck with crates or assassinations to get those however.