Late game story rant (spoilers)

[黄豆腐]

late game story about Yagami want to avenge sawa sensei's death is all he does and it's really annoying

Can't win argument with eihara/kuwana ? Sawa sensei death

I find yagami's motivation hinged on sawa's death is just overly done, Kuwana's motivation is more relatable and human-like

Like bruh... yagami barely know sawa sensei, in game wise they only know each other for like days

[LArc7thHeaven]

This is what everyone complaint honestly, the story premise is great but toward the finale you enter "broken record mode" yagami spouting muh sawa-sensei every single time and honestly while it's somewhat contrary to what devs want more people IRL support kuwana because he dindu nuffin'

[chazx9]

It is justified because her death was just swept under the rug by all of the villains and even the police. Someone had to do something about it. If you know Yagami's character then it is no surprise it will be him.

[Sacrefice]

Yeah that really got on my nerves too in the last 3rd of the game. The idea of the story is good and it definitly had it's moments but the overall execution is just sooo UHHHHHH just shut up already and get some real arguments against Eharas and Kuwanas reasoning...

Seriously Judgement was so well made from start to finish, all of it, yeah even the combat system imo, LJ doesnt even come close to it, which is really sad.

[Inputter]

Definitely annoying. Turned Yagami from a cool guy to whiny b*tch. Muh Sawa-san, boohoo.

[YeulEmeralda]

Originally posted by LArc7thHeaven:

This is what everyone complaint honestly, the story premise is great but toward the finale you enter "broken record mode" yagami spouting muh sawa-sensei every single time and honestly while it's somewhat contrary to what devs want more people IRL support kuwana because he dindu nuffin'

Dindu nuffin except killing and forcing people to act as his accomplice. Although it says a lot that people agree with him. Not enough to stop bullying folks into suicide though lmao.

[The Pants]

This aggravated me too; because Kuwama isn't like... right. About anything. He's not actually DOING anything about bullies, he's just murdering them and blackmailing his students to become accomplices. Since its a secret, nobody actually knows that bullies are being murdered, either; so it's not like he's deterring anyone. He's a failure who's self-loathing is pushed outward. He didn't stop bullying in his classroom, he didn't realize how bad it was until it was too late. This mirrors the thing every bully we hear says: "I didn't think they'd kill themselves" or "I didn't think it was that big a deal." Which is why he's totally fine with becoming an unperson in his quest for revenge. He hates himself most of all. Hates his weakness, hates his cruelty, hates the ultimately futile thing he's thrown his life away to do. Which is why he gives up in the end. Cause what the ♥♥♥♥ did he actually accomplish? More dead bodies, a trail of ruined lives, and his dumb quest being used to empower an insane government conspiracy.

I understood him. It felt, for like a SECOND, that Yagami did, too. Until he just lost all ability to actually make a point. Cause he has one. Sawa's death is proof that there is nothing clean about this whole ordeal. People are dead. People are going to ask questions about that, try and figure out what happened to them, try and understand how they died and who killed them and why.

We see the GAME make a vital point; that bullies are just ♥♥♥♥♥♥' kids, man. The bullies end up becoming clutch allies and turn into a band of do-gooders. The ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ kids you got sick of punching and who were jerking you around end up turning out all right. You watch that annoying girl fall in love with both Kaito and Suigura, and you're given a pretty understandable motive as to why she was such a ♥♥♥♥♥: she liked Mikoshiba and everyone basically didn't care that he died. See? Consequences! He wasn't some quest mob that nobody cared about. He had a life, and ending it didn't happen in a vacuum. It turned into a real ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥.

But we never see YAGAMI make that point. I don't know why. He's smart and his whole argument rests on the idea that "hey, this ♥♥♥♥ you're doing isn't clean, dude." Sawa being murdered is a powerful example of it, but it's not the only one, and he keeps bringing her up and starts calling her death a sacrifice. It wasn't that, man. She's not a martyr, she's a casualty of Kuwama's self-destructive murder-spree. Dude roped in his former students through blackmail, and then emotionally manipulated them by becoming the only person they could rely on as he dragged them deeper and deeper down a murder hole. He approached grieving parents in moments of vulnerability and dragged them into his quest, too; compromising THEM and potentially ruining THEIR lives if he's ever discovered.

Kuwama is a tragic figure. But he's ♥♥♥♥♥♥ up, man. He built a web of lies and blackmail that would drag down so many other people if it was ever discovered, which allowed him to freely manipulate them. It wasn't until he got tangled up in an even bigger web of lies and blackmail that he even started to think about what he had done. The GAME knows all of this. It tells you all of it. But Yagami, for some reason, just... can't.

[13LACK ORDER]

well can you blame Yagami for keep using "sawa sensei death" as an argument? it's not the only argument he had but it's THE ONLY ARGUMENTS HE NEED

Kuwana is just like Yagami. he will have counter arguments to anything Yagami says with "justice system can't help the victim" or something like that. they will keep all day long arguing what's right or wrong. well except the sawa sensei death arguments is the only thing Kuwana didn't have an answer to because even he knows he dragged innocent people into his quest for justice and he couldn't forgive himself for that

Yeah it might be annoying for you because he is like broken record that keep using "muh Sawa sensei death" as an argument but Yagami do have points. anything Kuwana using as justification for his so called justice was useless the moment he dragged innocent victim into this

Yagami know Kuwana cannot refute the "but Sawa sensei" argument and it became the only arguments he need to prove Kuwana argument is wrong. Kuwana keep using "justice system can't help everyone" or "justice couldn't help the victim" as arguments and Sawa sensei death is the proof that his method wasn't able to help everyone either

[YeulEmeralda]

Originally posted by The Pants:

This aggravated me too; because Kuwama isn't like... right. About anything. He's not actually DOING anything about bullies, he's just murdering them and blackmailing his students to become accomplices. Since its a secret, nobody actually knows that bullies are being murdered, either; so it's not like he's deterring anyone. He's a failure who's self-loathing is pushed outward. He didn't stop bullying in his classroom, he didn't realize how bad it was until it was too late. This mirrors the thing every bully we hear says: "I didn't think they'd kill themselves" or "I didn't think it was that big a deal." Which is why he's totally fine with becoming an unperson in his quest for revenge. He hates himself most of all. Hates his weakness, hates his cruelty, hates the ultimately futile thing he's thrown his life away to do. Which is why he gives up in the end. Cause what the ♥♥♥♥ did he actually accomplish? More dead bodies, a trail of ruined lives, and his dumb quest being used to empower an insane government conspiracy.

I understood him. It felt, for like a SECOND, that Yagami did, too. Until he just lost all ability to actually make a point. Cause he has one. Sawa's death is proof that there is nothing clean about this whole ordeal. People are dead. People are going to ask questions about that, try and figure out what happened to them, try and understand how they died and who killed them and why.

We see the GAME make a vital point; that bullies are just ♥♥♥♥♥♥' kids, man. The bullies end up becoming clutch allies and turn into a band of do-gooders. The ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ kids you got sick of punching and who were jerking you around end up turning out all right. You watch that annoying girl fall in love with both Kaito and Suigura, and you're given a pretty understandable motive as to why she was such a ♥♥♥♥♥: she liked Mikoshiba and everyone basically didn't care that he died. See? Consequences! He wasn't some quest mob that nobody cared about. He had a life, and ending it didn't happen in a vacuum. It turned into a real ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥.

But we never see YAGAMI make that point. I don't know why. He's smart and his whole argument rests on the idea that "hey, this ♥♥♥♥ you're doing isn't clean, dude." Sawa being murdered is a powerful example of it, but it's not the only one, and he keeps bringing her up and starts calling her death a sacrifice. It wasn't that, man. She's not a martyr, she's a casualty of Kuwama's self-destructive murder-spree. Dude roped in his former students through blackmail, and then emotionally manipulated them by becoming the only person they could rely on as he dragged them deeper and deeper down a murder hole. He approached grieving parents in moments of vulnerability and dragged them into his quest, too; compromising THEM and potentially ruining THEIR lives if he's ever discovered.

Kuwama is a tragic figure. But he's ♥♥♥♥♥♥ up, man. He built a web of lies and blackmail that would drag down so many other people if it was ever discovered, which allowed him to freely manipulate them. It wasn't until he got tangled up in an even bigger web of lies and blackmail that he even started to think about what he had done. The GAME knows all of this. It tells you all of it. But Yagami, for some reason, just... can't.

Yep if he really wanted to stop bullying he could start an NGO and give training seminars to teachers.
I mean kids are just being kids. I do not think that bullies are a lost cause. We know from science that the brains of teenagers is just kinda screwed up. It is the duty of adults to teach them right and wrong.

[Yukari]

Yep. It is very annoying. And on top of that, it is a very bad argument. Nobody wanted her to die. No one had put her in harms way on purpose. Kuwana is as guilty in her death as Yagami in the death of the lawyer in the first game. I would've understood if he used that argument talking to police, after he found out that they stop looking for the real killer, but to Kuwana and Ehara? "Hey, you are pissed that the kid who drove your kid to suicide went unpunished? But what about that teacher that died? She didn't deserve it!" So stupid and quite hypocritical.

Another annoying thing was who he acted like she was completely blameless. She was partly to blame for that kid's suicide, she didn't speak up in court, and then we saw her class having a bulling problem. I am not saying that she deserved to die, but the game is way overidealizing her.

[Lar Dass]

If Sawa-sensei didnt die or Kuwana only maimed the bullies and didnt kill them then in both of those cases yagami wouldnt really have an argument against kuwana. But since he did kill the bullies and sawa-sensei did die that was all he had to hold onto. I still think kuwana did nothing wrong, parents of suicided kids were failed, he offered them another chance at justice. And he did this years after the incident too, which means the bullies would have ample time to reform, hence why everyone said mikoshiba was great when deep down he still wasnt even after becoming a student-teacher, he didnt reform and neither did kawai

[Macario]

This has been said a thousand times. But yeah, personally what's frustrating to me is that it feels like the writers think Yagami has no other argument against Kuwana, it's all super forced "he could be right". He has a lot of points against him, but he just says "Sawa Sensei", like how the murders don't really help stop Bully (people don't know they died BECAUSE of being bullies, so it's pointless) and how Kuwana only poisons the minds of damaged families and encourages them to commit murder that will bite them in the ass years later, etc, etc. It's frustrating.