Sorcerers in DD2

[dodger]

Sometime in the last few days, I realized all I was doing with my Sorcerer was casting Blizzard to help my pawns do the killing. Largely because my Sorcerer hasn't that much killing power. I also realized when I encountered a Lich in a cave, that Sorcerers in DD2 have no Holy damage power. So, in DD2 Sorcerers in DD2 have all the downsides they had in DD1. But very little of the upsides they had in DD2. Their spells do less damage, I think they could carry more active spells in DD1 (6 vs 4), and they are totally missing a holy damage power. Please just make it so that playing a Sorcerer is like playing a Sorcerer in DD1.

[Mashiro]

Originally posted by hounddawg:

I have been playing my char as a sorc the last few days. In the beginning, I was using that chain lighting a lot along with the blizzard spell, Then I got the master meteor spell and smoked a griffin in 4 casts of it along with my thief, mage, and warrior pawns with the whole party at 90% health thanks to the mage. Not sure what you guys are complaining about, in the mid game at least they kick and take names imho

Griffin is easy to kill. I can walk out in most encounters with victory and still have 100% health anytime. Spam high palladium and let your sorc meteron or maelstrom whatever on the screen. Usually, you can come out unscathed.

[SiFi]

Originally posted by Mashiro:

Originally posted by hounddawg:

I have been playing my char as a sorc the last few days. In the beginning, I was using that chain lighting a lot along with the blizzard spell, Then I got the master meteor spell and smoked a griffin in 4 casts of it along with my thief, mage, and warrior pawns with the whole party at 90% health thanks to the mage. Not sure what you guys are complaining about, in the mid game at least they kick and take names imho

Griffin is easy to kill. I can walk out in most encounters with victory and still have 100% health anytime. Spam high palladium and let your sorc meteron or maelstrom whatever on the screen. Usually, you can come out unscathed.

The only thing that seemed odd was that it took 4 casts of Meteoron to down it. THAT MANY? Must have missed a half over half the hits. Got 1100 magic on my Sorc and I one shot those things...even with a mod that gives them 2x hp and nerfs my damage by 20%.

That is how stupid Sorcs are.

[dodger]

SiFi, I got the Lion_lord archstaff from the Elvish lady, did the first 2 enhancements, and now Magick = 887. That includes the 2 Rings of Percipience. That's a big improvement until I progress further. to get the top level gear in the game. I also found this video on YouTube to help me figure out how to properly use Augural Flare: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zcclqKOfLjw
I've explained the problem I have getting Maelstrom until NG+, but I've got Augural Flare as a fallback for indoor fights. And, I'll verify that it helps with the likes of Lichs. But, I've already had it said by many players that they can handle them fine without a Holy attack spell.
I do appreciate your help in explaining some of this. I can now see the way to making my Sorcerer very viable in DD2. Regarding my desire to see Sorcerer in DD2 be more like DD1, I'm going to have to think on that a bit, before I say more. My thinking coming into DD2 was like my thinking coming into DD1. For fights,I tend very much to look for elemental weakness of different enemy types, and cast the correct spell. In DD1, that worked well to a large part. In DD2, it seems like I can't look so much to elemental weakness for combat tactics.

[SiFi]

Originally posted by dodger:

SiFi, I got the Lion_lord archstaff from the Elvish lady, did the first 2 enhancements, and now Magick = 887. That includes the 2 Rings of Percipience. That's a big improvement until I progress further. to get the top level gear in the game. I also found this video on YouTube to help me figure out how to properly use Augural Flare: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zcclqKOfLjw
I've explained the problem I have getting Maelstrom until NG+, but I've got Augural Flare as a fallback for indoor fights. And, I'll verify that it helps with the likes of Lichs. But, I've already had it said by many players that they can handle them fine without a Holy attack spell.
I do appreciate your help in explaining some of this. I can now see the way to making my Sorcerer very viable in DD2. Regarding my desire to see Sorcerer in DD2 be more like DD1, I'm going to have to think on that a bit, before I say more. My thinking coming into DD2 was like my thinking coming into DD1. For fights,I tend very much to look for elemental weakness of different enemy types, and cast the correct spell. In DD1, that worked well to a large part. In DD2, it seems like I can't look so much to elemental weakness for combat tactics.

Thats a solid take away. With the absence of Dark attribute, and the holy/dark affinity to help, weakness exploiting is for sure a good help, but its not the catch-all that it was in DD:DA.

Glad you were able to make your way up north to the elf village. Lots of good stuff up there for magic vocations.

I've debated in my head, back and forth, the options that Sorcs have in DD2 vs DD:DA. I can say I'm disappointed that the raw number of spells is less, but at the same time I look at what we have in DD2, and the list seems more tailor fit to dealing the largest hits that you can. A glass cannon. As such, I'm not disappointed, as it does what it seems to be designed to do.

For that video, yes. Thats the type of experience many Sorc players were having. As he states in the opening, it almost seems like its an oversight, something they just didnt think about. There doesnt seem to be a damage cap on it, and since its proc'd on hits, people quickly put two and two together and suddenly "SORC OP!" people started flooding to the steam forums.

[dodger]

One of my thoughts on DD2, is that the devs might have tilted some things to help people get to Warfarer, if they had a desire to. This might account fpr some of teh changes to Sorcerer in DD2. And it might also account for why, in spite of struggling somewhat with Sorcerer in DD2, I feel like I'm leveling much faster and easier than I did in DD:DA. (And maybe why they made the changes they did to the dagger user class. Even a Thief pawn cuts through very many enemies like a hot knife through butter.)

[SiFi]

Originally posted by dodger:

One of my thoughts on DD2, is that the devs might have tilted some things to help people get to Warfarer, if they had a desire to. This might account fpr some of teh changes to Sorcerer in DD2. And it might also account for why, in spite of struggling somewhat with Sorcerer in DD2, I feel like I'm leveling much faster and easier than I did in DD:DA. (And maybe why they made the changes they did to the dagger user class. Even a Thief pawn cuts through very many enemies like a hot knife through butter.)

I am a bit curious as to some of the choices they made in the game. I dont think there is a bad vocation (besides trickster, garbage vocation), so I question what their goals were. Is the game hard? To a point, but then it becomes trivial. Do vocations have a unique identity? For the most part. Mage/Sorc are just separate branches of the same theme. So if thats the case, why do other vocations not have a branching/advanced version (like in DD:DA)?

I'm not upset by these choices, but if I could sit down with them with a cup of coffee and chat for an hour or two, I would be interested in hearing their thought process.

[dodger]

Yeah, me too. In DD:DA, I was always a little curious that they would say "You can do BBI at level 10 if you understand the mechanics of the game". At the time, I was cutious about what I was overlooking in the game mechanics, even though I made it to level 120, and 10s of levels in NG+. Guess we'll never know about some of these things.

[Fractured]

Originally posted by Toyosatomimi no Miko:

Originally posted by SiFi:

Everything you just typed, is why you are wrong. This isnt the place to rage at, pick your hills.

Go back and play DD1 and compare the SFX and the VFX.
Levin in DD1 has a distinct shocking sound, purple bolts with distinct varying shapes, and a rumble that follows each bolt a fixed amount of time afterward
Levin in DD2 has a very muted zap sound, and little if any echo, and flashbangs you with each cast with a blurry VFX.
Maelstrom in DD1 is pitch black and is a roaring windstorm.
Maelstrom in DD2 is this muted grey tornado with very mild wind SFX.
Seism in DD1 kicks up this massive amount of dust and rocks and creates a veritable dust storm as the ground shakes and your enemies stagger from the tremors.
Seism in DD2 is a couple of boulders getting tossed up with minimal dust and no stagger from enemies not directly hit from the boulders.
Bolide in DD1 is this massive meteor storm with massive explosions that cloak the field in destruction.
Bolide, sorry, METEORON in DD2 is like, five ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ meteors that flashbang you and leave behind a low res PS2-era burn decal where they hit and explode with the same generic explosion.wav that barrel bunches do.
DD1 you can feel the impact of your spells as they strike from the excellent VFX, SFX, hitstop, and all, DD2 you get next to no feedback on spells.

Again, I literally just finished DD1 (including dark arisen content) right before starting DD2, I'd remember this ♥♥♥♥ because it's fresh in my mind. And DD1>>>DD2 when it comes to spell effects, spell sounds, and overall gamefeel of spells.

I agree with pretty much all this.

RIP Gicel, my favorite spell.

Also, I miss charging up the spells farther, which was removed in DD2. Having the tactical thought process of risk vs reward of taking a couple extra seconds to boost it, or throw it now.

Granted, I wish they worked different a bit. Like I wish Gicel shot more ice lances, instead of just recasting the spell several times. But whatever.

I do think that Thundermine is really solid, but loses its luster later in the game. Sure it helps vs goblins and harpies and such. But anything bigger basically ignores it outright, and it doesn't do enough damage to use against anything that doesn't stagger from it.

[H-Foundry PIXIV]

Originally posted by Fractured:

RIP Gicel, my favorite spell.

I always liked spell-combined gicels.

[Jaguar Sprint]

Originally posted by dodger:

Sometime in the last few days, I realized all I was doing with my Sorcerer was casting Blizzard to help my pawns do the killing. Largely because my Sorcerer hasn't that much killing power. I also realized when I encountered a Lich in a cave, that Sorcerers in DD2 have no Holy damage power. So, in DD2 Sorcerers in DD2 have all the downsides they had in DD1. But very little of the upsides they had in DD2. Their spells do less damage, I think they could carry more active spells in DD1 (6 vs 4), and they are totally missing a holy damage power. Please just make it so that playing a Sorcerer is like playing a Sorcerer in DD1.

Mages got gimped, apparently a LOT of spells have been cut.
In general, I noticed that this game doesnt actually have as many skills as I expected.

[Dracoco OwO]

Originally posted by dodger:

Yeah, me too. In DD:DA, I was always a little curious that they would say "You can do BBI at level 10 if you understand the mechanics of the game". At the time, I was cutious about what I was overlooking in the game mechanics, even though I made it to level 120, and 10s of levels in NG+. Guess we'll never know about some of these things.

They probably mean run BBI with throwblasts as it breaks the entire thing. I did play low level sorc in BBI though but you need decent staves. The kind of staves you get at Gran Soren in particular the one that give you an attack boost that you lose if you get hit, but it's still sketchy without throwblasts.