Sorcerers in DD2

[dodger]

Sometime in the last few days, I realized all I was doing with my Sorcerer was casting Blizzard to help my pawns do the killing. Largely because my Sorcerer hasn't that much killing power. I also realized when I encountered a Lich in a cave, that Sorcerers in DD2 have no Holy damage power. So, in DD2 Sorcerers in DD2 have all the downsides they had in DD1. But very little of the upsides they had in DD2. Their spells do less damage, I think they could carry more active spells in DD1 (6 vs 4), and they are totally missing a holy damage power. Please just make it so that playing a Sorcerer is like playing a Sorcerer in DD1.

[dodger]

I've not yet seen what I consider as real answers to "what do other sorcerers do for something like a Lich in DD2" and "can a sorcerer just stand within a holy aurr from a mage and should it be this way". I've also realized in playing places like Drabnir's Grotto, that skills like Meteoron don't do anything indoors. It needs to work indoors, or they need some of the old skills that worked well indoors and outdoors in DD1. Or .... something. I can't imagine running into a Hydra indoors in DD2, but that was a creature that Sorcerers excelled at dealing with in DD1.

[SiFi]

When you are dealing with the raw damage output that Sorcs have, hitting weakness is just a bonus.

Sorc has the ability to one shot giant monsters even at lvl 35. If you find yourself struggling, then i hate to be the meme, but get better. Faults on you.

[Fractured]

Originally posted by dodger:

I've not yet seen what I consider as real answers to "what do other sorcerers do for something like a Lich in DD2" and "can a sorcerer just stand within a holy aurr from a mage and should it be this way". I've also realized in playing places like Drabnir's Grotto, that skills like Meteoron don't do anything indoors. It needs to work indoors, or they need some of the old skills that worked well indoors and outdoors in DD1. Or .... something. I can't imagine running into a Hydra indoors in DD2, but that was a creature that Sorcerers excelled at dealing with in DD1.

Flare is your answer to liches.

That said, Sorcerer's in DD2 is the reason why I stopped playing DD2. Massive disappointment.

DDDA Sorcerer > by far

[IcemayneXXV]

Originally posted by dodger:

I've not yet seen what I consider as real answers to "what do other sorcerers do for something like a Lich in DD2" and "can a sorcerer just stand within a holy aurr from a mage and should it be this way". I've also realized in playing places like Drabnir's Grotto, that skills like Meteoron don't do anything indoors. It needs to work indoors, or they need some of the old skills that worked well indoors and outdoors in DD1. Or .... something. I can't imagine running into a Hydra indoors in DD2, but that was a creature that Sorcerers excelled at dealing with in DD1.

Meteron for outdoors, Maelstrom for indoors. Also, augural flare and anything that hits it will demolish a lich pretty easily. Emperyan (or something like that) is the holy spell that lights up a room and absolutely destroys undead. You don't have to be in it's aura as it doesn't do anything to you except make things easier to see. Sorcerer is definitely the strongest it's been (including DD1 and DDDA) with the right build. It's just not as fun because it is so simple to destroy pretty much anything really quickly.

[rumpelstiltskin]

Originally posted by Doom_Cookies:

As someone who leveled all the vocations and did Sorcerer after most of the physical classes (so low Magick)

does it actually work like that? there were some discussions about it, and i think the consensus was that while it was like that in dd1, here it adjusts the stats based on your current vocation. i tried switching from str to magic at one point early on (lvl 14), and str and magic (base) stats basically swapped, and defense and m-defense, while also swapping, also evened out a bit.

[Fractured]

Originally posted by rumpelstiltskin:

Originally posted by Doom_Cookies:

As someone who leveled all the vocations and did Sorcerer after most of the physical classes (so low Magick)

does it actually work like that? there were some discussions about it, and i think the consensus was that while it was like that in dd1, here it adjusts the stats based on your current vocation. i tried switching from str to magic at one point early on (lvl 14), and str and magic (base) stats basically swapped, and defense and m-defense, while also swapping, also evened out a bit.

Base stats change, but growth stats are related to vocation. The big diff is that you'll cap all stats by the end. Instead of screwing yourself.

[dodger]

Originally posted by SiFi:

When you are dealing with the raw damage output that Sorcs have, hitting weakness is just a bonus.

Sorc has the ability to one shot giant monsters even at lvl 35. If you find yourself struggling, then i hate to be the meme, but get better. Faults on you.

This brings up something I've wanted to bring up. It seems like there are some who get really good damage out of Sorcerers in DD2. And yet there are still others like me who either don't get that much damage, or in some other way are have criticisms. I've found *some* useful feedback. But only some. If others are really getting such great damage, please, help us learn the difference in what you are doing, instead of just saying "I get great damage."
Also, note that I accidentally hired a level 47 Sorcerer inthe rift a few days ago. Before I dismissedehr, I checked, and her Magick was around 880 or so, definitely well over 800. My Sorcerer at level 45 still has Magick = 551. And I don't know how to explain the difference, or if my Magick is, for some reason, lower than it should be. Note that I started out as Mage and switched to Sorcerer at a low level, first chance I could do the necessary quest. (I was expecting to roll into the big city and be able to change it at level 10.)

[SiFi]

Originally posted by dodger:

Originally posted by SiFi:

When you are dealing with the raw damage output that Sorcs have, hitting weakness is just a bonus.

Sorc has the ability to one shot giant monsters even at lvl 35. If you find yourself struggling, then i hate to be the meme, but get better. Faults on you.

This brings up something I've wanted to bring up. It seems like there are some who get really good damage out of Sorcerers in DD2. And yet there are still others like me who either don't get that much damage, or in some other way are have criticisms. I've found *some* useful feedback. But only some. If others are really getting such great damage, please, help us learn the difference in what you are doing, instead of just saying "I get great damage."
Also, note that I accidentally hired a level 47 Sorcerer inthe rift a few days ago. Before I dismissedehr, I checked, and her Magick was around 880 or so, definitely well over 800. My Sorcerer at level 45 still has Magick = 551. And I don't know how to explain the difference, or if my Magick is, for some reason, lower than it should be. Note that I started out as Mage and switched to Sorcerer at a low level, first chance I could do the necessary quest. (I was expecting to roll into the big city and be able to change it at level 10.)

Wow, ok, you actually want to learn. Faults on me for thinking this was just an ignorant rant post.

So yes. Magic is insanely low for 45. How do we fix this? First and foremost we look at your gear.
Are you using the BiS (Best in slot) staff? If not, what one are you using?
What are the upgrades on it? For a magic class, you want to go get the Elf lady to upgrade it. Those give the best magic damage options.

Next we have the other random stuff that boost magic. What are your augments? The one that boost your magic is a whopping 30 magic. The two rings are also another 30 each. Thats 90 magic just from rings and one augment. (Side note, anyone who says augments are trash is worth ignoring everything they have to say)

Finally we look at leveling stats. Yes, what vocation you pick when you level up matters. I got two screen shots, one of myself who level'd almost entirely magic, and one of my MP thats almost entirely warrior. For this the total number isnt important, its the number in the brackets thats important. Those are the base stats you get from leveling.

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3213536948

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3213537024

So, what have you been leveling? (Yes, I saw that you said you went mainly magic, but at this point I've gone into raw tutorial mode) Are you mainly a magic vocation? If not then you will see a low magic stat. Since the various vocations have wildly different stats that you get while leveling you need to make sure you dont dump a ton of levels into one "style" of vocation and swap, or rather if you do swap, you just have to understand you wont see large numbers.

[SiFi]

Now how do we "get gud" with Sorc? If gear, augments and stats are lined up, whats next? Well the final piece is spell selection.

For Sorc, you very much want at LEAST one of the Master Skills, probably both. Each have their uses and Maelstrom has no wonky behavior that prevents it from being used indoors (sometimes. Its weird). So lets just assume you take both since who knows what you will be fighting while running around. That leaves us with 2 slots left. The master skills take a long time to cast, so ideally we have something with a shorter cast that we can use to contribute.

High Levin is a great option as its short to cast, and once cast its almost guaranteed to hit. If thats not your style, you can bring High Seism. Its AoE potential isnt as high as the master skills, but its cast can be sped up and its high stagger is helpful vs giant monsters. High Hagol, while nice, isnt about doing damage. Its thing is just making things cold...and thats about it. High Frigor is disappointing in all aspects. Even exploiting the weakness, taking the augment to boost damage when you do, its output is just too low.

Then we have the "F**k you in particular" Augural Flare. Cast that, spam your basic attack, wait and see the HP bars vanish. This is, no joke, the highest single target source of damage in the game, and its not even close. It is quite literally 4 to 5 times more damage than any other single target...anything, in the game. Yes Magic Archer has the highest damage skill in the game, but thats multi-target, hence my wording you goofs.

The rest of the skills that a sorc can use are shared with Mages, and are just the worst of all options. The support skills that a sorc has are underwhelming as the mage will do the support thing better. High Salamander is a great early spell, but once you get more AoE spells, it falls off. Why do a little bit of AoE damage when you could drop rocks from space on them or summon a tornado on their head?

Annnnd thats my Sorc 101

[dodger]

SiFi, lots for me to respond to. Let's get started:
1) My base Magick is 324. I''ve always played magic, started as Mage and moved to Sorcerer as soon as I could track down the quest to do and do it. (On a side note, my base HP is 1048, that seems way too high.)
2) My archstaff is Craos Tine, it's the only improvement I've found since I got the base archstave when I switched from Mage to Sorcerer. I have seen that upgraded gear is tough to come by on the first playthrough, but I guess I'll have to try to make it to a smithy by the name of Brokkr, or something like that.
3) I guess I'll also have to work on finding this elvish lady to enhance my archstave.
4) What are the 2 rings you talk about? I've for 11 rings in my inventory, but none of them improve Magick.
5) I have Meteoron, I have not been able to finish the other quest, the one with the old mage, because for some reason, forgeries keep disappearing from my inventory. I created a post just for that, but I've never gotten much response. So I don't have Maelstrom until the developer responds. If I read right, you also get some gear from that request, and so I don't have that either. I did finish the Jade Orblite quest, the problem came up sometime after that.
6) My augments are Constancy, Stasis, Asperity, Catalysis and Sagacity.
7) I'll experiment with your advice on spell selection, namely High Leven and Augaral Flare. From your post and one other, I see that others are combining Augural Flare with other spells, so I'll try that.
And when I get some of this resolved, I'll have to seek out a Lich and see what I can do to it.

[Indure]

Originally posted by SiFi:

Next we have the other random stuff that boost magic. What are your augments? The one that boost your magic is a whopping 30 magic. The two rings are also another 30 each. Thats 90 magic just from rings and one augment. (Side note, anyone who says augments are trash is worth ignoring everything they have to say)

I'm not disagreeing with you, but how is 30 magic from the augment good, when comparatively you have +1100 magic damage?

[Indure]

Originally posted by dodger:

SiFi, lots for me to respond to. Let's get started:
1) My base Magick is 324. I''ve always played magic, started as Mage and moved to Sorcerer as soon as I could track down the quest to do and do it. (On a side note, my base HP is 1048, that seems way too high.)
2) My archstaff is Craos Tine, it's the only improvement I've found since I got the base archstave when I switched from Mage to Sorcerer. I have seen that upgraded gear is tough to come by on the first playthrough, but I guess I'll have to try to make it to a smithy by the name of Brokkr, or something like that.
3) I guess I'll also have to work on finding this elvish lady to enhance my archstave.
4) What are the 2 rings you talk about? I've for 11 rings in my inventory, but none of them improve Magick.
5) I have Meteoron, I have not been able to finish the other quest, the one with the old mage, because for some reason, forgeries keep disappearing from my inventory. I created a post just for that, but I've never gotten much response. So I don't have Maelstrom until the developer responds. If I read right, you also get some gear from that request, and so I don't have that either. I did finish the Jade Orblite quest, the problem came up sometime after that.
6) My augments are Constancy, Stasis, Asperity, Catalysis and Sagacity.
7) I'll experiment with your advice on spell selection, namely High Leven and Augaral Flare. From your post and one other, I see that others are combining Augural Flare with other spells, so I'll try that.
And when I get some of this resolved, I'll have to seek out a Lich and see what I can do to it.

The elf city (Sacred Harbor) has the best sorcerer staff in the game prior to postgame and you'll want to enchant the staff there is well since elfs boost magic damage the most with their upgrades.

[SiFi]

Originally posted by dodger:

SiFi, lots for me to respond to. Let's get started:
1) My base Magick is 324. I''ve always played magic, started as Mage and moved to Sorcerer as soon as I could track down the quest to do and do it. (On a side note, my base HP is 1048, that seems way too high.)
2) My archstaff is Craos Tine, it's the only improvement I've found since I got the base archstave when I switched from Mage to Sorcerer. I have seen that upgraded gear is tough to come by on the first playthrough, but I guess I'll have to try to make it to a smithy by the name of Brokkr, or something like that.
3) I guess I'll also have to work on finding this elvish lady to enhance my archstave.
4) What are the 2 rings you talk about? I've for 11 rings in my inventory, but none of them improve Magick.
5) I have Meteoron, I have not been able to finish the other quest, the one with the old mage, because for some reason, forgeries keep disappearing from my inventory. I created a post just for that, but I've never gotten much response. So I don't have Maelstrom until the developer responds. If I read right, you also get some gear from that request, and so I don't have that either. I did finish the Jade Orblite quest, the problem came up sometime after that.
6) My augments are Constancy, Stasis, Asperity, Catalysis and Sagacity.
7) I'll experiment with your advice on spell selection, namely High Leven and Augaral Flare. From your post and one other, I see that others are combining Augural Flare with other spells, so I'll try that.
And when I get some of this resolved, I'll have to seek out a Lich and see what I can do to it.

Alright, the Rings are called the Rings of Percipience. Not exactly rare, you can get up to 6(?) from normal loot locations and rare chances from some giant monsters. Easiest ones to get are from Checkpoint town chests, and one from the Elf Village shop. Speaking of the elf village, thats where the shop is where you can get your staff upgraded.

To get to the elf village in the most natural way, buy a cheep bow in vern, then give it to the elf thats standing next to the weapon shop you just bought the bow from. Follow that quest line and you go there. If not then just run as far north west as you can. https://dragonsdogma2.wiki.fextralife.com/Interactive+Map?id=25501&code=mapA
As for better staffs, that should be pretty easy to get. If you make it to the Elf village, you can get far better staffs there then probably anywhere else you've been to so far. Lion-Lords staff (the one at elf village) has a base magic of 371, so that right there will boost your magic to almost 700, a far more reasonable number.

Sorry that the forgeries are being stupid with you. Hopefully that doesn't cause too many issues.

[SiFi]

Originally posted by Indure:

Originally posted by SiFi:

Next we have the other random stuff that boost magic. What are your augments? The one that boost your magic is a whopping 30 magic. The two rings are also another 30 each. Thats 90 magic just from rings and one augment. (Side note, anyone who says augments are trash is worth ignoring everything they have to say)

I'm not disagreeing with you, but how is 30 magic from the augment good, when comparatively you have +1100 magic damage?

Because its not for me. Its for him.

[AH-1 Cobra]

Originally posted by dodger:

SiFi, lots for me to respond to. Let's get started:
1) My base Magick is 324. I''ve always played magic, started as Mage and moved to Sorcerer as soon as I could track down the quest to do and do it. (On a side note, my base HP is 1048, that seems way too high.)
2) My archstaff is Craos Tine, it's the only improvement I've found since I got the base archstave when I switched from Mage to Sorcerer. I have seen that upgraded gear is tough to come by on the first playthrough, but I guess I'll have to try to make it to a smithy by the name of Brokkr, or something like that.
3) I guess I'll also have to work on finding this elvish lady to enhance my archstave.
4) What are the 2 rings you talk about? I've for 11 rings in my inventory, but none of them improve Magick.
5) I have Meteoron, I have not been able to finish the other quest, the one with the old mage, because for some reason, forgeries keep disappearing from my inventory. I created a post just for that, but I've never gotten much response. So I don't have Maelstrom until the developer responds. If I read right, you also get some gear from that request, and so I don't have that either. I did finish the Jade Orblite quest, the problem came up sometime after that.
6) My augments are Constancy, Stasis, Asperity, Catalysis and Sagacity.
7) I'll experiment with your advice on spell selection, namely High Leven and Augaral Flare. From your post and one other, I see that others are combining Augural Flare with other spells, so I'll try that.
And when I get some of this resolved, I'll have to seek out a Lich and see what I can do to it.

Sagacity is only good if you've got literally no other damage boosting augments to slot in its place. Ambuscade and lethality from archer are both damage multipliers that have more value that sagacity.

Subtlety from thief is also very good on mage/sorc, it's an absolute must have for mage/sorc pawns. It works even better if your tank pawn has +aggro augment, and x2 aggro rings. Pawn AI is very finicky, they will stop casting a spell to move if an enemy gets close to them (with any inclination), so subtlety is honestly a DPS skill for mage/sorc pawns.

Dominance augment from warrior is also very good on sorcerers, because knockdown stat is meta in this game, this is why people say dwarven smithing even on archstaves. Knocked down targets are not in a combat stance, which makes the extra damage from ambuscade even better.

If you got ring of recitations on a sorc pawn, you probably want the vitality augment from warrior, because it gives a flat +200 HP. Doesn't matter as much on a mage, because they can use legion's might. You might consider that on an arisen as well, if you still get hit a lot. If you're going to be casting meteoron or maelstrom, you absolutely want rings of recitation.