I haven't touched this game.

[Vermilion Knight]

After the first week of release, this game has been nothing but a huge disappointment. It's really boring. It's nothing like the first Dragon's Dogma at all. The classes are a huge let down and only have like 2 special abilities you can actually use. The story doesn't make sense. Performance issues make frames randomly drop. It has no charm, all the characters in the story and bland and detached from the world. I could go on and on.

I don't think Capcom has released a good game in years so I think this is the final straw. It's just a shame because Dragon's Dogma is by far one of my favorite RPGs, and then they turned it into a soulless, money grab with MTX.

[Viconia DeVir]

Originally posted by Acode:

That would be something along the lines of: "I didn't like X and would have liked Y way more, because A and B." Or: "I liked X but didnt like Y because A and B".

Now that is criticism that is neither destructive nor disregarding anything else. And criticism that can lead to actual meaningful discussions. Sadly, it's also the rarest type of criticism I have seen on these forums, which is truly a shame.

No one made you the arbiter of what constitutes as criticism. Don't like something? Don't read it. Some people can't articulate themselves in a capacity that evokes eloquence - not everyone is a high IQ Harvard graduate. People are disappointed, angry, upset over this release. So they express their frustrations in the best of manner that they can. The very foundations of critical thought is the processes in which an individual uses their reasoning to the best of their abilities to point out flaws in an attempt to start a discussion or to communicate themselves on these issues. Participants who find this interesting will then engage with the individual to facilitate meaningful discourse on the topic. That is the sole purpose that drives this.

It isn't about: aw he said something that disregards my feelings, I didn't like that - that's not how this works. The most important thing about this is that you're not forced to participate if it bothers you. Don't like the fact that DD 2 is getting trashed; then ignore the discussion and don't participate, period.

The game right now is sitting at a 60% overall rating with the recent score at 67% - it was 68 then it dropped. The steam charts paint a picture of a game that lost over 90% of players in a month. The game also dropped from the global top sellers that it's nowhere to be seen.

The game has issues. Acknowledge it. Raise awareness on it. Make Crapcom notice it so they can fix it. People who are frustrated are not your enemies they're regular people like you who just want a better game.

[Scriptimus]

Originally posted by Urtoar:

Originally posted by Scriptimus:

I wonder the same, it's like they don't even understand the "concepts" they're bringing up.

if you can't understand it's fine there is a lot of things in this world we'll never understand

Yes, such as, your vague idea of what a "key concept" is within a game. ROFL.

[Acode]

Originally posted by Viconia DeVir:

No one made you the arbiter of what constitutes as criticism. Don't like something? Don't read it. Some people can't articulate themselves in a capacity that evokes eloquence - not everyone is a high IQ Harvard graduate. People are disappointed, angry, upset over this release. So they express their frustrations in the best of manner that they can. The very foundations of critical thought is the processes in which an individual uses their reasoning to the best of their abilities to point out flaws in an attempt to start a discussion or to communicate themselves on these issues. Participants who find this interesting will then engage with the individual to facilitate meaningful discourse on the topic. That is the sole purpose that drives this.

It isn't about: aw he said something that disregards my feelings, I didn't like that - that's not how this works. The most important thing about this is that you're not forced to participate if it bothers you. Don't like the fact that DD 2 is getting trashed; then ignore the discussion and don't participate, period.

The game right now is sitting at a 60% overall rating with the recent score at 67% - it was 68 then it dropped. The steam charts paint a picture of a game that lost over 90% of players in a month. The game also dropped from the global top sellers that it's nowhere to be seen.

The game has issues. Acknowledge it. Raise awareness on it. Make Crapcom notice it so they can fix it. People who are frustrated are not your enemies they're regular people like you who just want a better game.

You know, the different types of criticism are well defined and you definitely should look up what types of criticism there are, because it is not a simple matter as you think it is and make it look like.

Also that has nothing to do with what I said. What I said was in very short: If you want meaningful discussions; give meaningful criticism that invites the opinion of others instead of giving people the feeling of need to defend something they like. Hate and negativity only attracts more hate and negativity and you won't find anything meaningful in that.

And I've only seen very few people that do not acknowledge any of the problems. I'm not sure where you got that idea from, but I have seen so so many people speaking about them, discussing about them not just here, but on other platforms as well. It's safe to say that only a few percent of the people do not acknowledge any problems the game has.

And I want to add to that: Even if it has problems, people can like the game. Everyone is different in what they like or how much someone cares about something. That's just the nature of humans.

The last thing though is, it won't make Capcom any faster if people keep crying. It won't do anything. People can scream and hate as much as they want, but all that is going to happen is, that its going to attract more hate and negativity as I said above. Meaningful criticism is worth multiple times more than just calling something bad or ♥♥♥♥ or whatever.

Thats all I want to say.

[D. Flame]

Originally posted by Acode:

Originally posted by Viconia DeVir:

No one made you the arbiter of what constitutes as criticism. Don't like something? Don't read it. Some people can't articulate themselves in a capacity that evokes eloquence - not everyone is a high IQ Harvard graduate. People are disappointed, angry, upset over this release. So they express their frustrations in the best of manner that they can. The very foundations of critical thought is the processes in which an individual uses their reasoning to the best of their abilities to point out flaws in an attempt to start a discussion or to communicate themselves on these issues. Participants who find this interesting will then engage with the individual to facilitate meaningful discourse on the topic. That is the sole purpose that drives this.

It isn't about: aw he said something that disregards my feelings, I didn't like that - that's not how this works. The most important thing about this is that you're not forced to participate if it bothers you. Don't like the fact that DD 2 is getting trashed; then ignore the discussion and don't participate, period.

The game right now is sitting at a 60% overall rating with the recent score at 67% - it was 68 then it dropped. The steam charts paint a picture of a game that lost over 90% of players in a month. The game also dropped from the global top sellers that it's nowhere to be seen.

The game has issues. Acknowledge it. Raise awareness on it. Make Crapcom notice it so they can fix it. People who are frustrated are not your enemies they're regular people like you who just want a better game.

You know, the different types of criticism are well defined and you definitely should look up what types of criticism there are, because it is not a simple matter as you think it is and make it look like.

Also that has nothing to do with what I said. What I said was in very short: If you want meaningful discussions; give meaningful criticism that invites the opinion of others instead of giving people the feeling of need to defend something they like. Hate and negativity only attracts more hate and negativity and you won't find anything meaningful in that.

And I've only seen very few people that do not acknowledge any of the problems. I'm not sure where you got that idea from, but I have seen so so many people speaking about them, discussing about them not just here, but on other platforms as well. It's safe to say that only a few percent of the people do not acknowledge any problems the game has.

And I want to add to that: Even if it has problems, people can like the game. Everyone is different in what they like or how much someone cares about something. That's just the nature of humans.

The last thing though is, it won't make Capcom any faster if people keep crying. It won't do anything. People can scream and hate as much as they want, but all that is going to happen is, that its going to attract more hate and negativity as I said above. Meaningful criticism is worth multiple times more than just calling something bad or ♥♥♥♥ or whatever.

Thats all I want to say.

No one here has the power to make changes to the game, and the devs aren't reading the posts.

Negative firestorms is the only way to get their attention. The only reason they made the post acknowledging the issues is because the game launched to mostly negative reviews.

[Pink Eye]

Originally posted by D. Flame:

Negative firestorms is the only way to get their attention. The only reason they made the post acknowledging the issues is because the game launched to mostly negative reviews.

This. People had to yell HARD to even get the ability to start a new game. Isn't that absurd.

[Hob Golbin]

Okay, so I'm just going to pretend your criticism of this game is fair and move on to that Capcom allegedly hasn't had a good game in x years. Did you play Monster Hunter World? What about DMC V? Those were both legendary in my book.

[Urtoar]

Originally posted by Scriptimus:

Originally posted by Urtoar:

if you can't understand it's fine there is a lot of things in this world we'll never understand

Yes, such as, your vague idea of what a "key concept" is within a game. ROFL. :Horse:

that is kinda what a concept is yes.
i gave you a list of concepts that a developer gets use to make the experience that they want the player feel and i explained why they are lacking in comparison to DDDA
one more try you might get it.
Player expression what tools can devs give the player so they can make a unique character/experience
quest design what will we tell the players to do and how will we tell them will them can we make it interesting.
world design is the space the player in engaging to the player do they know where to go.
these concepts did not get improved on in DD2 in most cases they regressed.

[Acode]

Originally posted by D. Flame:

No one here has the power to make changes to the game, and the devs aren't reading the posts.

Negative firestorms is the only way to get their attention. The only reason they made the post acknowledging the issues is because the game launched to mostly negative reviews.

You forget though, what did Capcom do after that? They made a survey, inviting everyone - really anyone (even if you do not own the game or have played it) to take part in a survey where they asked people about the Game and about future DLCs.

They wanted meaningful criticism - is all I want to say.

So while you are right, the big outrage did catch the attention of Capcom, what they wanted afterwards was meaningful criticism that allows them to (hopefully) learn from that.

Do they learn from that? idk, I for sure don't know what's going to happen in the future. Time will tell.

Also a small reminder, Capcom did acknowledge the performance issues even before the release, just not on steam. Regarding the MTX tho I agree; they were silent about that, probably hoping that it wouldn't upset people though. Same with New Game.

[Pink Eye]

Originally posted by Acode:

Regarding the MTX tho I agree; they were silent about that, probably hoping that it wouldn't upset people though.

Friendly reminder that the only reason why Dark Arisen released with all the MTX re-packaged into the base game for free was because we raised a lot of noise about it back in the day:

Still, it's not all bad news. CAPCOM has dismissed complaints over on-disc DLC in the past, but it appears they're starting to pay attention to fans.
[...]
The important lesson here is that fans are being heard. The outcry over Mass Effect 3 was pretty much unprecedented, and there's no doubt in my mind that BioWare and EA heard fans loud and clear. They also have an opportunity to turn a mistake into gold. I hope they do. Fan backlash is playing a role in the future of the industry, and that's a good thing.
[...]
For all my criticisms of these various developers and publishers, I want them to be successful and make lots more great games.
[...]
My philosophy is simply that good consumer relationships built on forming trust between content creators and consumers is a sensible long-term strategy - one that will make game publishers and developers more money in the long-run.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/erikkain/2012/05/16/dragons-dogma-includes-locked-on-disc-content-but-capcom-is-listening/

All of that yelling back then resulted in this:

Either way, though, Capcom says those days are at an end. In a post on the Capcom Unity blog, Capcom USA senior VP Chris Svensson said that the publisher would be “re-evaluating how [DLC] is delivered in the future.” Svensson admitted that there were some games, like the upcoming Dragon’s Dogma (out May 25th), that were too close to release to make drastic changes to DLC plans. Still, he said, gamers’ voices and complaints “are being heard."

https://www.escapistmagazine.com/capcom-says-its-done-with-on-disc-dlc/

[Viconia DeVir]

Game journalism back then was so based.

[Acode]

Originally posted by Pink Eye:

Originally posted by Acode:

Regarding the MTX tho I agree; they were silent about that, probably hoping that it wouldn't upset people though.

Friendly reminder that the only reason why Dark Arisen released with all the MTX re-packaged into the base game for free was because we raised a lot of noise about it back in the day:

Still, it's not all bad news. CAPCOM has dismissed complaints over on-disc DLC in the past, but it appears they're starting to pay attention to fans.
[...]
The important lesson here is that fans are being heard. The outcry over Mass Effect 3 was pretty much unprecedented, and there's no doubt in my mind that BioWare and EA heard fans loud and clear. They also have an opportunity to turn a mistake into gold. I hope they do. Fan backlash is playing a role in the future of the industry, and that's a good thing.
[...]
For all my criticisms of these various developers and publishers, I want them to be successful and make lots more great games.
[...]
My philosophy is simply that good consumer relationships built on forming trust between content creators and consumers is a sensible long-term strategy - one that will make game publishers and developers more money in the long-run.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/erikkain/2012/05/16/dragons-dogma-includes-locked-on-disc-content-but-capcom-is-listening/

All of that yelling back then resulted in this:

Either way, though, Capcom says those days are at an end. In a post on the Capcom Unity blog, Capcom USA senior VP Chris Svensson said that the publisher would be “re-evaluating how [DLC] is delivered in the future.” Svensson admitted that there were some games, like the upcoming Dragon’s Dogma (out May 25th), that were too close to release to make drastic changes to DLC plans. Still, he said, gamers’ voices and complaints “are being heard."

https://www.escapistmagazine.com/capcom-says-its-done-with-on-disc-dlc/

I didn't know about that part of history. I can certainly see now why the outrage about MTX was especially big this time around. It makes sense, especially after those broken promises.

Having this shown to me, makes it pretty clear, apparently I was in the wrong in this case, I do admit that. I mean the evidence is self-explanatory and I would be lying if I wouldn't acknowledge that ... So yeah. I was wrong :c

Seems Capcom really needs some fire to start thinking about changing things.

It's honestly sad, that people had and have to take those measures to make them listen, but I can also see them not caring very much, if everyone would just discuss around happily while sipping tea.

Though I do want to mention: the best discussions still happen with meaningful input from every side. I honestly enjoyed this one. Thank you for that. c:

[Pink Eye]

Originally posted by Viconia DeVir:

Game journalism back then was so based.

You should have seen it in the 80s. Some of the best RPG gamers back then were gaming journalists, believe it or not. For example, Roe R. Adams, he managed to beat Time Zones a week before it released. He also contributed to the development of a bunch of RPGs like Ultima. He was a very active journalist who wrote reviews and critiques for the game he played. You can see some of his works in the Computer Gaming World Magazine:
https://www.cgwmuseum.org/galleries/issues/cgw_5.4.pdf

[Pink Eye]

Originally posted by Acode:

I didn't know about that part of history. I can certainly see now why the outrage about MTX was especially big this time around. It makes sense, especially after those broken promises.

Having this shown to me, makes it pretty clear, apparently I was in the wrong in this case, I do admit that. I mean the evidence is self-explanatory and I would be lying if I wouldn't acknowledge that ... So yeah. I was wrong :c

Seems Capcom really needs some fire to start thinking about changing things.

It's honestly sad, that people had and have to take those measures to make them listen, but I can also see them not caring very much, if everyone would just discuss around happily while sipping tea.

Though I do want to mention: the best discussions still happen with meaningful input from every side. I honestly enjoyed this one. Thank you for that. c:

I'm glad. Happy. So much so. That you were willing to listen and acknowledge the points. That's all I want. This isn't a debate. This isn't an argument. This isn't a fight. This is just a discussion. We all want the same thing here: a good game.

[Amon]

Originally posted by Pink Eye:

Originally posted by Acode:

I didn't know about that part of history. I can certainly see now why the outrage about MTX was especially big this time around. It makes sense, especially after those broken promises.

Having this shown to me, makes it pretty clear, apparently I was in the wrong in this case, I do admit that. I mean the evidence is self-explanatory and I would be lying if I wouldn't acknowledge that ... So yeah. I was wrong :c

Seems Capcom really needs some fire to start thinking about changing things.

It's honestly sad, that people had and have to take those measures to make them listen, but I can also see them not caring very much, if everyone would just discuss around happily while sipping tea.

Though I do want to mention: the best discussions still happen with meaningful input from every side. I honestly enjoyed this one. Thank you for that. c:

I'm glad. Happy. So much so. That you were willing to listen and acknowledge the points. That's all I want. This isn't a debate. This isn't an argument. This isn't a fight. This is just a discussion. We all want the same thing here: a good game.

Have me award

[Vermilion Knight]

Originally posted by justfaded:

You've never played dd1. Haha one post and literally everybody who's played dd1 knows you're lying.

I have 204 hours in the first game?
It's literally on my steam profile lol.