Warfarer was supposed to be the "make your own vocation"

[Sphyrwa]

Why is it limited to only three skills (4th being Rearmament that allows you to actually use the different vocations)?

Why doesn't the weapon enchants stick when you switch the weapon?

Really disappointed.

[Migromul]

Originally posted by 1CMF:

Originally posted by D. Flame:

Really, Rearm shouldn't have been a thing. You should have just auto swapped weapons when you used a skill tied to that weapon.

Actually a decent idea to stick to the 4 skill mindset to control balance. I know a lot of people hate not having a skill swap button like DD1, but I see it as the devs trying to streamline and balance the game (you still get op though, so who cares in a single player game?)

DD 1 doesn't have a skill-swap button. It has two swiitch-buttons... a primary and a secondary. This is a chore for the hybrid-vocations... If you want to swap to a unequiped weapon you only can do that through the equipment-screen which even isn't accessable directly. (in comparison to the inventory-screen.) But only via inventory or ESC. (main menu)

You HAVE, however, your own skills for that weapon, then, but no longer the skills for the now unequipped weapon. If you change to another wepon of the same type, the skills won't change. And ALL weapons count to your weight regardless if equipped or not.

I think ,the 3 skills the warfarer has, is, to balance it out. If you could have thee skills for every weapon you equip, this would be way too overpowered and would make the other classes more or less obsolete. (save for the masterskills.) Especially because you can equip literally any weapon you want, Including more of one of the same type. This flexibility is its great advantage.

[CatCatCatCatCat!!!!]

Perhaps a better question to ask is why cant you have 8 skills instead of 4. They removed the option to use 4 more skills even though it was present in the first game seemingly for no reason.

[Greb]

Warfarer is more like "make all other vocations redundant" lol. It's especially terrible considering how they decided to do vocation equipment this time around, with full outfits not even wearable by any base vocation most of the time, like how the Gryphic Set can't even be worn fully by a Fighter or a Warrior. It's insanity. You practically have to play Warfarer to look halfway decent.

It should have been a vocation that let you equip multiple weapons which visibly appeared on you at the same time and you could switch between them by clicking LS / RS or something. Then you could have recreated the Strider or Assassin or whatever from DD1 using it, by equiping a bow and daggers at the same time. Or the return of the Magick Archer. Or your own blend of whatever. While also looking cool because the weapons would be hanging off you visibly. Wear a Holy staff on your back, with a censer on your belt, while wielding a sword and shield. Deus Vult!

Honestly not sure what the rearmament skill could be replaced with, maybe just allowing you to equip three weapons instead of two, so you can go absolute full warlord. Or it allows you to swap weapons while in the middle of actions such as running, jumping or climbing instead of being neutral, which is also what rearmament allows now.

I can accept the vocation having crappy generic stat growth, like bare minimal across all fields instead of being perfectly focused on a vocations specific strengths. It's a worthwhile tradeoff. Only being able to equip three weapons at once would have made it less overpowered too, because at the moment why would you play anything else. You don't even NEED rearmament, since all that skill does is let you swap weapons while actually doing something, rather than being forced to stand still and go through the equipment menu (which was never a problem for me - I'd rather take four skills and just take two seconds to equip a staff or daggers when I needed to).

Nobody is forcing me to never play any other vocation again other than Warfarer, I suppose. I just don't see why I would. The stat growth penalty certainly hasn't caused me any problems, anyway.

It's bad game design to have one thing completely outclass all other things, right?

[Mr Rabbit]

magic archer is all you need. i demolished the dragon and everything in that red world after all beams all enemies take seconds and bosses take less than 3 mins each lol...

[Migromul]

Originally posted by CatCatCatCatCat!!!!:

Perhaps a better question to ask is why cant you have 8 skills instead of 4. They removed the option to use 4 more skills even though it was present in the first game seemingly for no reason.

Puh... People just don't see. A lot of weapon skills of the first game are core skills now. Didn't you notice that? For example: charge-attacks of the sarrior are linked to the weapon-skill equipped. Mage doesn't have healing as a CORE skill. the upercut-attack of shield-wielders in DDDA (including MK) is a CORE skill of the fighter, now. Finishings weren't in the game in DDDA and different heavy-attack or normal attack-animations (including different effects), depending on the position of the enemy, also weren't in the first game.
Core skills in DD II are also much more powerful. To make them somewhat more powerful, you even needed an augment in DDDA.
AND: you don't have 4 skills but only 3 per weapon. Shield block is linked with the shield-skills in DDDA, which is more annyoing than it is useful most of the time. You also can't switch direction instantly while blocking.

The combat literally only looks better on paper for the first game. It's much more polished in DD II, even if you have 2 less skills ON PAPER.

I find only 3 classes on par or better in DDDA: Mage, Sorcerer and Magic Archer. Ans for the mage I'm not even sure about that... This is only true, because Magic Archer somewhat lacks impact-fieedback in DD II. And the animations of the spells in DDDA - at least of the sorcerer - are just better. (This may also be, bcause there is no Quickspell in part one, and you have several "stages" depending on the spell and rings you wear.) But I also must say, that the magic Archer has much mor variaty in its attack-skills. (btw: two essential MA-bow-skills are also CORE skills now... which gives you 6 weapon-skills for the bow. In sacrifice of dagger-skills. But playing warfarer still gives you 5 bow skills and still being able to use daggers for melee-situations. You just don't need dagger weapon-skills, because they're realy powerful on its own.
And when we spieak about daggers: Thousand kisses is a CORE skill in DD II...

[VoiD]

Originally posted by D. Flame:

Really, Rearm shouldn't have been a thing. You should have just auto swapped weapons when you used a skill tied to that weapon.

No

[D. Flame]

Originally posted by VoiD:

Originally posted by D. Flame:

Really, Rearm shouldn't have been a thing. You should have just auto swapped weapons when you used a skill tied to that weapon.

No

Yes

[Monk]

If you want more, there are multiple mods that give just that, alas no ultimates so it's kind of meh for me as I wanted Archer, fighter and warrior using the fighter ultimate.

[VoiD]

Originally posted by D. Flame:

Originally posted by VoiD:

No

Yes

Ok

[1CMF]

Originally posted by CatCatCatCatCat!!!!:

Perhaps a better question to ask is why cant you have 8 skills instead of 4. They removed the option to use 4 more skills even though it was present in the first game seemingly for no reason.

Balance, streamlining, and vocation identity. (all arguable, but this is most likely why the devs decided to reduce skills).

Balance:
Restricting what skills are available creates a gameplay loop where the player has to decide what skills are available and when they should use them. By giving the player every skill, the reason behind bringing them diminishes and encounters can expect you to have everything available at your finger tips. Through minimizing skills available you create conscious decision making and you can now reward the player for "smart" choices and it makes you feel good for figuring the system out (but it also makes you feel bad for not bringing the right skills). Double edged sword that can reward or make you feel limited.

Streamlining:
Previous game had a lot of useless skills that no one would take. This one has some of the same but they minimized the skillset to have unique actions/reasons for taking them (attack up, attack down, mobility, defensive, etc.). Less skills also means less work on devs to balance (sometimes seen as lazy dev, but it is a smart choice often times to have unique identifiable skills instead of a lot of fluff).

Vocation Identity:
Having vocations restricted in not just skills but also single weapon (reason why you tended to have 2 skill bars in DD1) is to promote vocations with easily identifiable strengths and weaknesses. Again if you have one vocation that can do everything (Warfarer) why would you play anything else? Hence the heavy restrictions on Warfarer that give it a lot of negatives. I think it is still a good vocation and highly adaptable, depending on how the player sets it up....but not as heavy a hitter as a pure class...which is intended.

This is all conjecture, but from a game development standpoint, this is what you normally think of. Or they are lazy and horrible like these forums say and the devs just hate the players.

[Jerry Rizzerman]

I recommend trying out the True Warfarer mod, that might be more up your alley

[ᴛᴀʟᴜ 🐦]

Warfarer is so much fun, you can equip a mages staff to levitate and get those hard to reach chests and tokens. A magic bow to revive your dead pawns, Frosted Edges to slay drakes in seconds.

[Edstyles]

having 3 skills sure is limiting. ID like to have 4 at least.

[Outlaw Mugen]

Warfarer is underwhelming. It works the best only when you choose 2 weapons ( you get access to 1-2 skills per weapon ) And Skills is what you want. Imagine choosing a Sorcerer weapon but having 0 skills/spells. Yeah have fun with basic attack and levitation.

To make matters worse Warfarer gets 2 PASSIVE skills after maxing it out. If you played DD1 any hybrid vocation Magic Archer, Assassin, Magic Knight got ACTIVE and PASSIVE skills. Such a missed opportunity. Needles to say why would I play gimped class ? Maxed it out and you don't even get the "TOP" skills from other vocations. The game is easy and there is no point of having to switch to other class because situation demands it.

[VoiD]

Originally posted by Outlaw Mugen:

Warfarer is underwhelming. It works the best only when you choose 2 weapons ( you get access to 1-2 skills per weapon ) And Skills is what you want. Imagine choosing a Sorcerer weapon but having 0 skills/spells. Yeah have fun with basic attack and levitation.

To make matters worse Warfarer gets 2 PASSIVE skills after maxing it out. If you played DD1 any hybrid vocation Magic Archer, Assassin, Magic Knight got ACTIVE and PASSIVE skills. Such a missed opportunity. Needles to say why would I play gimped class ? Maxed it out and you don't even get the "TOP" skills from other vocations. The game is easy and there is no point of having to switch to other class because situation demands it.

Because if you're a warrior and a bunch of harpies show up you're basically a sitting duck waiting for your pawns to finish them off.

Even without skills you could switch to a bow and take care of them all in 2 seconds.

Or if you're a thief doing a bunch of damage, then a dragon starts flying to annoy the ♥♥♥♥ out of your team you can also use a bow, or even better, a magic bow, and nuke it even without any skills

Likewise if you're a sorc and you mess up your positioning you can switch to sword & shield and block any attack, even perfect parry and stagger them instead, you could even hold X to launch them in the air as a skill, except it doesn't use any skill slots for any of those.

If you're any class and you just got hit by a dragon breath you don't have to wait for your pawn to heal you, you can swap to the mage staff and heal your whole team right there.

You can also charge up your paralyzing bolt as a spearhand to the max, then switch to thief and start spinning on a monster's weakspot as it can't even react for several seconds.

Speaking of spinning, you can drench a mob with a special arrow then spin with the icy daggers for an instant freezing as well.

And all of this while using the best armor you can get, regardless of class.

If anything warfarer is too strong as it is.