Augments and Stats

[Borrz]

I've tried to find information on Stats and Augments but have only found bits and pieces. The following information is from some news sources and my own play through.
STATS:
First things first, it seems that Stats will 'adjust' depending on your vocation, but the attributes given at each level up are somehow influenced by the vocations you have put levels into (actual xp levels, not discipline levels). A level 15 Pawn that has 15 levels in Fighter, but then you switch to Mage actually has different Stats to a level 15 Pawn you switch to Mage that has 15 levels in Thief. I am unsure whether after that point the level up mechanic then balances the Pawn out, so when both are then at level 30, they have much the same Stats?
I've seen some sources say that at lvl 200 every characters stats will be the same as there are hard caps to the stats (so at some point, after levelling Warrior for 100+ levels, it will stop giving extra Strength points and you might have to level as Mage to fill up the Magic stat to it's hard cap). Whether this is true we shall see when people reach level 200.

Augments:
I thought that I had cracked this but they have bamboozled me.
DEPENDING on current VOCATION, at least two Augments provide different flat increase values:

For reference (as I actually suspect that values might differ at different levels), I am level 28, roughly 8 levels in fighter and 20 levels in thief.

Mettle:
Thief = +88 defence
Warrior = +94 defence
Mage = +87 defence
MysticSpear = +84 defence

Apotropaism:
Thief = +78 MDef
Warrior = +69 MDef
Mage = +87 MDef
MysticSpear = +74 MDef

Verve:
Consistent across vocations +30 Strength

Endurance:
Consistent +150 Stamina

Vitality:
Consistent +200 Health.

This is just five augments I bothered to check. If you have other augment values please respond. Perhaps your values differ to mine as you are different level or have levelled as purely Mage/Sorc for 30 levels, who knows?

P.s I checked the values with and without equipment (consistently gave these flat values), so I do not think it is a percentage increase (as the percentage is like 1.605xxxxxx for thief and then 1.4937xxxx for warrior). It could be some deep stat percentage boost based off of a dozen variables but then I'm never going to work it out.

[Knavenformed]

The system kinda rewards you for playing the class you want unitl 200, and can switch easier after that

In DD1 you kinda had to play bowman classes for a bunch of levels to get stamina for late game, and Warrior for defense in hard-mode, even for a Mage imo if you cared about optimizing even a little bit.

[The Tempted Man]

To be honest this is a moot discussion. DA punished the pplayer for not amking up his mind from the beginning, in this game regardless of your choices, you will steamroll anything apart from a drake at level 20. At least this is my experience thus far.

[jerrypocalypse]

Originally posted by Borrz:

Augments:
I thought that I had cracked this but they have bamboozled me.
DEPENDING on current VOCATION, at least two Augments provide different flat increase values:

For reference (as I actually suspect that values might differ at different levels), I am level 28, roughly 8 levels in fighter and 20 levels in thief.

Mettle:
Thief = +88 defence
Warrior = +94 defence
Mage = +87 defence
MysticSpear = +84 defence

Apotropaism:
Thief = +78 MDef
Warrior = +69 MDef
Mage = +87 MDef
MysticSpear = +74 MDef

Verve:
Consistent across vocations +30 Strength

Endurance:
Consistent +150 Stamina

Vitality:
Consistent +200 Health.

This is just five augments I bothered to check. If you have other augment values please respond. Perhaps your values differ to mine as you are different level or have levelled as purely Mage/Sorc for 30 levels, who knows?

P.s I checked the values with and without equipment (consistently gave these flat values), so I do not think it is a percentage increase (as the percentage is like 1.605xxxxxx for thief and then 1.4937xxxx for warrior). It could be some deep stat percentage boost based off of a dozen variables but then I'm never going to work it out.

Could it maybe be a percentage of the base attribute value with that vocation equipped? That could explain why gear isn't changing the added value, and why it changes based on vocations. Or is that value what you're vasing the 1.6 and ~1.5 values on?

[Borrz]

Originally posted by jerrypocalypse:

Originally posted by Borrz:

Augments:
I thought that I had cracked this but they have bamboozled me.
DEPENDING on current VOCATION, at least two Augments provide different flat increase values:

For reference (as I actually suspect that values might differ at different levels), I am level 28, roughly 8 levels in fighter and 20 levels in thief.

Mettle:
Thief = +88 defence
Warrior = +94 defence
Mage = +87 defence
MysticSpear = +84 defence

Apotropaism:
Thief = +78 MDef
Warrior = +69 MDef
Mage = +87 MDef
MysticSpear = +74 MDef

Verve:
Consistent across vocations +30 Strength

Endurance:
Consistent +150 Stamina

Vitality:
Consistent +200 Health.

This is just five augments I bothered to check. If you have other augment values please respond. Perhaps your values differ to mine as you are different level or have levelled as purely Mage/Sorc for 30 levels, who knows?

P.s I checked the values with and without equipment (consistently gave these flat values), so I do not think it is a percentage increase (as the percentage is like 1.605xxxxxx for thief and then 1.4937xxxx for warrior). It could be some deep stat percentage boost based off of a dozen variables but then I'm never going to work it out.

Could it maybe be a percentage of the base attribute value with that vocation equipped? That could explain why gear isn't changing the added value, and why it changes based on vocations. Or is that value what you're vasing the 1.6 and ~1.5 values on?

I will need to redo the numbers at the next level (tomorrow) to check if it is a flat value or if the increased attribute changes with a higher base.

Considering that my base character in thief vocation has 144 defence. With Mettle it goes to 232. That's either a +88 flat increase / a 1.611111111x percentile increase / or a quadratic equation where the game does something like 2n + 32. (2 times level 2x28, add 32 to get to the 88 increase).
Equipment doesn't affect it (so mettle occurs before any equipment attribute increase).

[Borrz]

For anyone interested in the stats (I imagine very few, or minmaxers), my second day of maths has revealed the following:
We already know that mettle and apotropaism give different values to different vocations at the same level. I suspected it differed depending on level too. Now I know for sure.

At level 28 Mettle gave +84 defence to MysticSpear. At level 30 Mettle gives +86 to MysticSpear. Apo has gone from +74 to +76 MDef.
This also reveals it isn't a simple percentage boost (as although my base increased, the percentage increase went from 1.65x to 1.62x. My thoughts on a quadratic might hold true, (n+56), but I would have to know the stats of a level 1 player with Mettle to be sure.

[jerrypocalypse]

Originally posted by Borrz:

For anyone interested in the stats (I imagine very few, or minmaxers), my second day of maths has revealed the following:
We already know that mettle and apotropaism give different values to different vocations at the same level. I suspected it differed depending on level too. Now I know for sure.

At level 28 Mettle gave +84 defence to MysticSpear. At level 30 Mettle gives +86 to MysticSpear. Apo has gone from +74 to +76 MDef.
This also reveals it isn't a simple percentage boost (as although my base increased, the percentage increase went from 1.65x to 1.62x. My thoughts on a quadratic might hold true, (n+56), but I would have to know the stats of a level 1 player with Mettle to be sure.

Interesting finds! Definitely going to continue following

[Borrz]

This post thread is now a blog. Anyhow.

I have levelled as MysticSpear between 28 to 33. I will list beneath the base stats in three different vocations at level 32 and then 33, having gained the level using MysticSpear Vocation. (for ease, +24HP, +6Sta, +9Str, +1Def, +3Magic, +4MDef)

Lvl 32>33
-----------MS----Thief----Mage------MS----Thief----Mage
Health: 1246----1196----1146-----1270--1220---1170
Stamin: 1036----1036----936------1042--1042---942
Streng: 226-----186-----166-------235---195-----175
Defenc: 143-----158-----153-------144---159-----154
Magic:- 171------121-----151-------174---124-----154
MDefe: 113-------128-----158------117----132-----162

A few interesting points:
-MysticSpear is very much low defence, high offence
-The attributes gained in that one level using MysticSpear (+9 Str as an example), carries over to the other two vocations! Yes the game has re-balanced it, but it still counts the distribution of attributes in the way that they are earned. This is particularly important when looking at the Mage vocation. After around 8 levels in Fighter, 20 levels in Thief and now 5 levels in MS, it is abundantly clear that I have gained a good chunk more Strength than Magic. As a Mage I am currently physically stronger even with it re-balancing my stats.

Perhaps at level 999, having maxed out the stats (there seems to be three articles saying this, and one that says at around level 300 it will stop giving you as many attributes, slowing down your growth. Show us the data journalists) this will not matter at all. Probably the game is designed, just as someone reported very early on, to have everyone converge towards the same Attribute numbers at max level. And again as someone said, it doesn't really matter too much as the difficulty is not that hard as yet (I have just reached Battahl). But at the moment it clearly is an impact in my damage output as a mage (by a little, considering gear is just as important as in DD1).

I did not get a screenshot but I am pretty sure I saw that the game gave me +0 defence at the level up, so to see my Status change by one was interesting. However I believe the game is using units smaller than whole integers, and just showing us the rounded up or down numbers. It might have added +0.4 defence (shown as 0 when rounded), which pushed my defence from 143.3 to 143.7, rounded now to 144?

Last but not least the Augments. As with the Status, I now believe they are using values with decimal places. Thief Mettle bonus did not change from level 32 to 33 (stayed at a visible 93 points), however at level 28 it was +88. So it has gone up a visible 5 points in 5 levels. MysticSpear has gone from +84 to +89 and Mage +87 to +92. So it seems that the bonus increases by roughly a value very close to 1. Perhaps it is +0.95.

That's all.