Dragon’s Dogma 2: amazing game, BUT …

[Rastlaff]

I became a huge fan of Dragon's Dogma right when it was released - together with some of the other people I know, but not that many, because at the start the game was literally mocked by the media and journalists … those same journalists who are now suddenly singing praises to the sequel AND the predecessor - the whole fun to see, reminds me of another game that suffered similar fate: Days Gone.

Yes, Dragon’s Dogma is having that exemplary dynamic combat system with rich animations that became a reference for any other studio making games in the same genre (Red Dead Redemption 2 relying on the excellent Euphoria engine is another good example from another genre) - and that is something you might also expect from the upcoming Crimson Desert, though, I’m beginning to be cautious about announcements these years …

So far a lot of games were failing at introducing good exploration features and Dragon’s Dogma did it brilliantly: dungeons, regions, feeling of danger and progression when you go from a simple torch to a magic light, combat spells cleverly given double usage to enhance traversal, etc., not just going with numbers and levels, but giving actual options that make both combat and exploration shine and have a potential of pushing the sequel(s) into the metroidvania field.

But here comes the BUT:

Dragon’s Dogma 2 is asking $70 for a game that smells like something I already own twice: on my XBox and on Steam (Dragon's Dogma: Dark Arisen). I was really hoping for something new, a true sequel that was announced for the very first time and to be honest was crying for a real co-op instead of this outdated pawn feature … Now we’ve got a game I do like very much, but it’s almost the same I did play before just with the promises of additional content (larger world, parallel world story… but at the same time the developers themselves are saying “you won't see that much change from the 1st one”). Visuals from the promotional videos feel almost the same with textures being a bit better - but it was already done by mods. No discounts for DDDA owners - the exact same way of (mis)treating your dedicated fan base as done by the ARK team. The exact same way to promise a game with updates here and there (and for that one not even sure they will outshine what modders already did, it’s a joke). Upgraded dialogs for pawns they are giving as an example is something that won't change a single thing about the game and you know it! No matter how much effort they put in, it won't replace the co-op content fans were asking for ... and yes, solo players, nothing prevents you from playing solo when a game is co-op and well balanced for both modes. Anyway, you can enjoy those solo features right now in the first game.

Don’t get it wrong: I really like Dragon’s Dogma and part 2 will most probably be as good as the first one. But to be honest, I do recommend people who have never played a Dragon's Dogma game to just grab Dragon's Dogma: Dark Arisen and install mods instead of spending $70 at something we can’t be sure about, not knowing the amount of the new content and the QA job behind. And another question: did they fix the keyboard and mouse controls for part 2 before releasing it on PC?

From what I’ve seen so far, to me it looks like Dragon’s Dogma 2 is a game made by the fantastic development team we know, which was not given enough budget to make a real sequel and was pushed out too early (as it happens to often in the industry nowadays). And it’s not up to us, players, to pay the bill for something the editors messed up with the first one and are now trying to recover by going to the media. Capcom is the culprit here to me.

The correct price for the game we were shown so far should be $40 and maybe even less for DD:DA owners. RE Engine is a successor to MT Framework as said by Capcom themselves (not super clear in which ways technically, because it’s a proprietary tech), but porting your existing content from one engine to the next one made by the same developer is not hard - it’s the Ubisoft way, no need to look far for examples.

It could have been a $70 game to me (maybe), if they took time to develop a real co-op for the sequel.

[Trip]

I paid 60 for Dragons Dogma on Xbox 360 back in the day and played hundreds of hours. I immediately bought Dark Arisen as well for many more hours of enjoyment.

I bought it day one on steam to support the PC release, I've barely played it though, only like 150 hours on my PC save file. I just wanted to show support for day one PC release.

All told DD2 will be cheaper for me then the original.

I don't want them to reinvent the wheel, and change the game so dramaticly by adding co-op. And I love co-op games. What I want is more of what already gave me hundreds on hundreds of hours of gameplay.

[wasteland_ghost]

Originally posted by Trip:

I paid 60 for Dragons Dogma on Xbox 360 back in the day and played hundreds of hours. I immediately bought Dark Arisen as well for many more hours of enjoyment.

I bought it day one on steam to support the PC release, I've barely played it though, only like 150 hours on my PC save file. I just wanted to show support for day one PC release.

All told DD2 will be cheaper for me then the original.

I don't want them to reinvent the wheel, and change the game so dramaticly by adding co-op. And I love co-op games. What I want is more of what already gave me hundreds on hundreds of hours of gameplay.

You're a fan of the game and I can understand that - I am one too. But be careful here: when people are saying "give me more of the same" they might indeed get what they're asking for and just what they're asking for. And it's a trap, because how different DD3 will be and how much will you pay for it? Just for a couple of new swords and boots? Even if the game is good, real good, even if you're ready to play the old one over and over again and never get bored? How many series went by that "don't reinvent the wheel" idea and ended up upsetting their players by selling them the same games over and over again up to the point people said "enough is enough"? I could have understood your phrase if it was said by someone from Capcom, because it's good for them in terms of money spent/money gained, but it's bad for the players in terms of having a fresh gaming experience. From the player's perspective you're not just can, you ought to ask for new things! Otherwise we'll be ever stuck in one place and never progress.

If you did play the game that much, you should know how pawns work and how an actual human controlling them could add to the experience... while still keeping the solo part, because it's here already, nothing can corrupt it. We're not talking going MMO, which would have been a drastic change, for sure, but co-op is essentially almost there already from the gameplay perspective, just a bit of scaling is needed.

In fact, right now you can go and grab DD:DA with just $4 and have that solo experience:
https://store.steampowered.com/app/367500/Dragons_Dogma_Dark_Arisen/

Don't play with numbers: you decided to buy the game twice, so it's your own choice, not something to be forced on everyone else. Saying that part 2 is cheaper for you than the sum you already spent on the other games in the series is not justifying the price. We're being sold remakes and addons at a full price of a AAA game nowadays and see a player defending that bad practice feels weird.

And to be clear here: there's nothing bad in wanting more of the same and there's nothing bad in having addons for games - provided those are named and priced properly. But justifying the practice of selling addons as full priced games IS bad.

[Captain Canard]

Originally posted by Trip:

I don't want them to reinvent the wheel, and change the game so dramaticly by adding co-op. And I love co-op games. What I want is more of what already gave me hundreds on hundreds of hours of gameplay.

I second that. Though I am going to wait for this game to go on sale before buying. The only games I pay $70 for are flight simulators, which are worth it IMO. I'll pay $40 for DD2 and no more, but that's obviously a personal conviction.

The other advantage of waiting for a sale is that'll likely coincide with enough time to fix all the launch day bugs that are bound to be in this (or any) game.

[Alfgart]

tl;dr: massive whining because the game has no co-op

Don't buy. It's so simple

[[-iD-]]

so this is just a long winded coop cope fest? its not gonna have it, this was decided long ago. you coop copers need to reach the final phase of cope already.

[wasteland_ghost]

Seems like nowadays people can't read. Saying it's just about co-op is oversimplifying what the OP is saying about the amount of new content and general direction of the sequel.

So on my side I'm going to replay the original with a couple of mods (thanks for pointing that out!) and wait for more info and probably a big discount on the sequel.

[Rastlaff]

Originally posted by Alfgart:

tl;dr: massive whining because the game has no co-op

Don't buy. It's so simple

Originally posted by -iD-:

so this is just a long winded coop cope fest? its not gonna have it, this was decided long ago. you coop copers need to reach the final phase of cope already.

How interesting, grabbing words out of context and distorting the meaning, so it's no longer tied to the original post, but I suppose it's the way to mislead people who don't want to read long texts by giving them catchy short sentences, isn't it?

[[-iD-]]

Originally posted by Rastlaff:

Originally posted by Alfgart:

tl;dr: massive whining because the game has no co-op

Don't buy. It's so simple

Originally posted by -iD-:

so this is just a long winded coop cope fest? its not gonna have it, this was decided long ago. you coop copers need to reach the final phase of cope already.

How interesting, grabbing words out of context and distorting the meaning, so it's no longer tied to the original post, but I suppose it's the way to mislead people who don't want to read long texts by giving them catchy short sentences, isn't it?

"It could have been a $70 game to me (maybe), if they took time to develop a real co-op for the sequel. " right from the topic.

its not so cope.

[Rastlaff]

Originally posted by -iD-:

"It could have been a $70 game to me (maybe), if they took time to develop a real co-op for the sequel. " right from the topic.

its not so cope.

A perfect example: for sure, you decided to ignore "maybe" that was coming from above concerns. Be careful: it's a slippery slope you're on - reducing the whole post to just one line that triggers you personally. It's demagogic and manipulative and we see a lot of it nowadays in a lot of places.

[Trip]

Originally posted by wasteland_ghost:

Originally posted by Trip:

I paid 60 for Dragons Dogma on Xbox 360 back in the day and played hundreds of hours. I immediately bought Dark Arisen as well for many more hours of enjoyment.

I bought it day one on steam to support the PC release, I've barely played it though, only like 150 hours on my PC save file. I just wanted to show support for day one PC release.

All told DD2 will be cheaper for me then the original.

I don't want them to reinvent the wheel, and change the game so dramaticly by adding co-op. And I love co-op games. What I want is more of what already gave me hundreds on hundreds of hours of gameplay.

You're a fan of the game and I can understand that - I am one too. But be careful here: when people are saying "give me more of the same" they might indeed get what they're asking for and just what they're asking for. And it's a trap, because how different DD3 will be and how much will you pay for it? Just for a couple of new swords and boots? Even if the game is good, real good, even if you're ready to play the old one over and over again and never get bored? How many series went by that "don't reinvent the wheel" idea and ended up upsetting their players by selling them the same games over and over again up to the point people said "enough is enough"? I could have understood your phrase if it was said by someone from Capcom, because it's good for them in terms of money spent/money gained, but it's bad for the players in terms of having a fresh gaming experience. From the player's perspective you're not just can, you ought to ask for new things! Otherwise we'll be ever stuck in one place and never progress.

If you did play the game that much, you should know how pawns work and how an actual human controlling them could add to the experience... while still keeping the solo part, because it's here already, nothing can corrupt it. We're not talking going MMO, which would have been a drastic change, for sure, but co-op is essentially almost there already from the gameplay perspective, just a bit of scaling is needed.

In fact, right now you can go and grab DD:DA with just $4 and have that solo experience:
https://store.steampowered.com/app/367500/Dragons_Dogma_Dark_Arisen/

Don't play with numbers: you decided to buy the game twice, so it's your own choice, not something to be forced on everyone else. Saying that part 2 is cheaper for you than the sum you already spent on the other games in the series is not justifying the price. We're being sold remakes and addons at a full price of a AAA game nowadays and see a player defending that bad practice feels weird.

And to be clear here: there's nothing bad in wanting more of the same and there's nothing bad in having addons for games - provided those are named and priced properly. But justifying the practice of selling addons as full priced games IS bad.

Uh, why are you even mentioning a 3 when 2 isn't even out yet and it's a near miracle we are getting it straight to PC

A few new boots and swords, what? 2 will have new vocations, new enemies, new gear, a bigger map, khajits (unfortunately). More of what si many of us love about the original. All coming ng to PC. And on my birthday no less. I'm ecstatic.

Co-op would have made a very different game. One I don't want. Do not fix what isn't broke.

BtW, speaking of co-op I finally decided to jump on the Deep Rock band wagon and Holly hell what a great co-op game!

TLDR

DD2 is more of what fans want.

Leave co-op to other games.

[Coils of Light]

Originally posted by -iD-:

"It could have been a $70 game to me (maybe), if they took time to develop a real co-op for the sequel. " right from the topic.

OP actually managed to merge the most common complaints and to make them interdependent

[wasteland_ghost]

Originally posted by -iD-:

"It could have been a $70 game to me (maybe), if they took time to develop a real co-op for the sequel. " right from the topic.

its not so cope.

90% of the OP is literally about the lack of new content to justify the price tag of $70. It was indeed said by the game director Hideaki Itsuno that "the sequel may not include as many things that feel completely new or different, but will be more polished and enhanced in order to achieve a more immersive RPG and action adventure for the player".

The way I see it, co-op was used just as an example by OP of something that could have added value to the game with not that much effort. But *even than* wasn't done.

Originally posted by Trip:

DD2 is more of what fans want.

Leave co-op to other games.

Who gave you the right to speak for all the DD fans?

TBH, it's very bizarre seeing players being vocally and aggressively against new features. If you're real fans of a game and gaming in general, you should greet with open arms any improvements and future developments.

I won't go into co-op discussion here, because what you two are doing is hijacking the OP's topic and turning it into something else entirely. But I will go and answer by another topic that's specifically about co-op and I suggest OP to do the same.

So if you want a TL;DR version of the OP, here's a proper one: DD2 is a good game, but it doesn't have enough content to justify the price tag of $70.

As I teacher IRL I see a lot of young people nowadays unable to read carefully or recap what they just heard. When someone is focused on something they've got in their mind up to the point they ignore everything else, it's not good for them in the first place. Being a fan of something doesn't mean being single-minded. If you love something, it doesn't mean you have to justify everything that comes out of it. You're doing the game a disservice by turning blind eye to the problems it has, maybe if you were a bit more open-minded, Capcom would have given those good devs more time and money for something much more greater and truly deserving those $70.

[[-iD-]]

Originally posted by wasteland_ghost:

Originally posted by -iD-:

"It could have been a $70 game to me (maybe), if they took time to develop a real co-op for the sequel. " right from the topic.

its not so cope.

90% of the OP is literally about the lack of new content to justify the price tag of $70. It was indeed said by the game director Hideaki Itsuno that "the sequel may not include as many things that feel completely new or different, but will be more polished and enhanced in order to achieve a more immersive RPG and action adventure for the player".

thats all the fans are asking for though. we dont need to reinvent the wheel here to make a good game. not everything needs leaps and bounds of innovation to be good or worth buying. and whether or not the 70$ price tag is justifiable remains to be seen and coop has nothing to do with it.

and xbox owners paid 69.98 for the DD and the DA release later in total.
so this is nothing new.

[leon]

Bla bla bla I'm Broke Bla Bla Bla

[Trip]

Originally posted by wasteland_ghost:

Originally posted by -iD-:

"It could have been a $70 game to me (maybe), if they took time to develop a real co-op for the sequel. " right from the topic.

its not so cope.

90% of the OP is literally about the lack of new content to justify the price tag of $70. It was indeed said by the game director Hideaki Itsuno that "the sequel may not include as many things that feel completely new or different, but will be more polished and enhanced in order to achieve a more immersive RPG and action adventure for the player".

The way I see it, co-op was used just as an example by OP of something that could have added value to the game with not that much effort. But *even than* wasn't done.

Originally posted by Trip:

DD2 is more of what fans want.

Leave co-op to other games.

Who gave you the right to speak for all the DD fans?

TBH, it's very bizarre seeing players being vocally and aggressively against new features. If you're real fans of a game and gaming in general, you should greet with open arms any improvements and future developments.

I won't go into co-op discussion here, because what you two are doing is hijacking the OP's topic and turning it into something else entirely. But I will go and answer by another topic that's specifically about co-op and I suggest OP to do the same.

So if you want a TL;DR version of the OP, here's a proper one: DD2 is a good game, but it doesn't have enough content to justify the price tag of $70.

As I teacher IRL I see a lot of young people nowadays unable to read carefully or recap what they just heard. When someone is focused on something they've got in their mind up to the point they ignore everything else, it's not good for them in the first place. Being a fan of something doesn't mean being single-minded. If you love something, it doesn't mean you have to justify everything that comes out of it. You're doing the game a disservice by turning blind eye to the problems it has, maybe if you were a bit more open-minded, Capcom would have given those good devs more time and money for something much more greater and truly deserving those $70.

How does the OP (or you) know it's not going to be enough new content to justify the price tag? The game isn't out yet. You don't even know.

The fact is I've got probably over 500 hours all told in DD on Xbox and PC combined. Many others have as many or more. All without co-op.

More of the same except polished and enhanced with a better RPG experience?!? I'm even MORE hyped and ready now.

Leave co-op to other games. DD didn't need it, DD2 doesn't need it.

You don't need to fix what isnt broken.

$70 for another 500 hours in the Dragons Dogma universe? I'm ready.