is DD2 the best OPEN WORLD JRPG ever???

[PandaSav]

Yup. Feels like it.

Edit - We need more Monsters Capcom, and more health for them in NG+

[Mike]

Originally posted by Netsa:

Originally posted by Mike:

Also I disagree in regards of the open world being too big with no mounts or anything. If you actually find optimal ways to each destination it really does not take that long to get to one town to another and if your in a rush you can skip the fodder. Then you have the port crystals in late game which just tele you to where you lay them at.

I don't understand the complaints about the walking/running to each area. Maybe because I enjoyed it in DDDA so here it feels right at home.

Give me an example. How fun is it to get to the elven village?

You may have a lot of patience for walking around doing nothing, but that doesn't mean it's a good thing. Pretty much every open world game has mounts for a reason. You have mounts in real life, too, they're called cars. No game with an ounce of sanity has you walking everywhere with stamina that constantly depletes.

It was pretty fun getting to most new areas (including the elven village) because new enemy encounters, dynamic fights, caves with loot, over enjoyment of combat systems....etc. Just because its boring to you does not mean it is for everyone else.

[Fractured]

Originally posted by Mike:

Originally posted by Fractured:

You literally ignored the entire paragraph where I said that fast travel is lazy. I don't want to fast travel, I try to avoid it where possible. And even direct routes can take over an hour to get to if you don't fast travel. And I have only explored half the map I believe, so its only going to get worse.

And unsure if you've played the later parts of the game, where mobs get blink strike among many other things that let them chase your ass down even when sprinting, and friggn destroy you if you try to run passed them. And proceeds to let all the other mobs catch up that you DID manage to pass.

And I enjoyed it in DDDA, I rarely used port crystals. But the map was SIGNIFICANTLY smaller, and had far more direct routes.

No I read your entire post but your exaggerating the time it takes to get from one point to another and your clearly mixing that with your time spent exploring. I have 50+hrs in this game and have only used a port crystal once and if you know the most optimal route and it takes you 1 HOUR to get to one city then you are WALKING, finding every seeker coin, killing every mob,....etc lol. If you just make a bead to your destination it will take you 5-15min max and thats even with some fighting in between, as the maps is designed for traveling by foot, not with mounts or any other method.

I just don't buy the whole " And even direct routes can take over an hour to get to if you don't fast travel." because I have walked from the capitol to melve, and to other settlements and it took KNOW WHERE NEAR 1 hour. Heck I even ran from a late game area back to the canyon settlement in less then 15 min because I already cleared the path and knew the optimal route.

You don't have to like it or agree with me but saying stuff like it takes you up to an hour just to get to point a to point b is just crazy, and not accurate imo. Just to give a comparision I read that in Breath of the Wild (you know a game WAYYYY bigger then DD2) it took 52min to get from one end of that map to the other. SO if it took that long to do that in BoTW it will take a FRACTION of that to do it in DD2.

Have you....not left the first area? Saying "The capital to melve" as your prime example is really telling.

Also, using BOTW as an example, a game that literally has mounts lol. AND gliding.

[Netsa]

Originally posted by Mike:

Originally posted by Netsa:

Give me an example. How fun is it to get to the elven village?

You may have a lot of patience for walking around doing nothing, but that doesn't mean it's a good thing. Pretty much every open world game has mounts for a reason. You have mounts in real life, too, they're called cars. No game with an ounce of sanity has you walking everywhere with stamina that constantly depletes.

It was pretty fun getting to most new areas (including the elven village) because new enemy encounters, dynamic fights, caves with loot, over enjoyment of combat systems....etc. Just because its boring to you does not mean it is for everyone else.

New encounters? Dynamic fights? The road to the elven village features zero enemies I hadn't already seen elsewhere, and every cave I've been in has also had basic loot and monotone enemy encounters. I'm glad for higher damage/defense from new gear, but even if it's not boring subjectively to you, you have to admit that it could easily be done better than this (and it has).

[Fractured]

Originally posted by Netsa:

Originally posted by Mike:

It was pretty fun getting to most new areas (including the elven village) because new enemy encounters, dynamic fights, caves with loot, over enjoyment of combat systems....etc. Just because its boring to you does not mean it is for everyone else.

New encounters? Dynamic fights? The road to the elven village features zero enemies I hadn't already seen elsewhere, and every cave I've been in has also had basic loot and monotone enemy encounters. I'm glad for higher damage/defense from new gear, but even if it's not boring subjectively to you, you have to admit that it could easily be done better than this (and it has).

Fights aren't monotone for me, I enjoy them. But you're correct, as far as I'm aware I've scoured the entire Elven Forest. There are no new enemies in that whole region. I don't even think there are any new variants.

[Angel]

no....

[Mike]

Originally posted by Fractured:

Have you....not left the first area? Saying "The capital to melve" as your prime example is really telling.

Also, using BOTW as an example, a game that literally has mounts lol. AND gliding.

I have explored most of the map, but nice try to deflect and assuming incorrectly.

Also that BoTW stat I found was with a person WALKING across hysrule not even running or even using a mount lol. So once again if it takes 52min to jog across BoTW with no mounts, it will NOT take a person 1hr to get from melve to the capitol or any other settlement/destination. If you don't believe me here is a link ( https://zeldauniverse.net/2017/03/26/it-takes-57-minutes-to-cross-hyrule-corner-to-corner-in-breath-of-the-wild/ )

[Mike]

Originally posted by Netsa:

Originally posted by Mike:

It was pretty fun getting to most new areas (including the elven village) because new enemy encounters, dynamic fights, caves with loot, over enjoyment of combat systems....etc. Just because its boring to you does not mean it is for everyone else.

New encounters? Dynamic fights? The road to the elven village features zero enemies I hadn't already seen elsewhere, and every cave I've been in has also had basic loot and monotone enemy encounters. I'm glad for higher damage/defense from new gear, but even if it's not boring subjectively to you, you have to admit that it could easily be done better than this (and it has).

Everything could be better, but you won't hear me nitpicking every little detail that is not to my liking lol. Its cool to have your own opinion but when I say I enjoyed exploring that area of the map, I mean it and its mostly due to the excellent combat system that even after 50hrs I'm not bored of.

[Migromul]

For western-type-fans definitly. But just because it's NOT a TYPICAL JRPG...

And even in comparison to western RPGs I find both DD at least in the list of my top 10.... (alltime / all perspective) or top 5 (fantasy / medival age /third person .)

[Netsa]

Originally posted by Mike:

Originally posted by Netsa:

New encounters? Dynamic fights? The road to the elven village features zero enemies I hadn't already seen elsewhere, and every cave I've been in has also had basic loot and monotone enemy encounters. I'm glad for higher damage/defense from new gear, but even if it's not boring subjectively to you, you have to admit that it could easily be done better than this (and it has).

Everything could be better, but you won't hear me nitpicking every little detail that is not to my liking lol. Its cool to have your own opinion but when I say I enjoyed exploring that area of the map, I mean it and its mostly due to the excellent combat system that even after 50hrs I'm not bored of.

Combat and exploration aren't the same thing, that's why I'm criticizing the open world here. The combat is fine enough, but the exploration is bad. If you took out all of the enemies aboveground, this game would become bad. The same isn't true of other open world games.

[Tsikaz]

Sadly, the small bestiary and low difficulty once arrived in late game or even ng+, without any scaling give quite negative points

[Mike]

Originally posted by Netsa:

Originally posted by Mike:

Everything could be better, but you won't hear me nitpicking every little detail that is not to my liking lol. Its cool to have your own opinion but when I say I enjoyed exploring that area of the map, I mean it and its mostly due to the excellent combat system that even after 50hrs I'm not bored of.

Combat and exploration aren't the same thing, that's why I'm criticizing the open world here. The combat is fine enough, but the exploration is bad. If you took out all of the enemies aboveground, this game would become bad. The same isn't true of other open world games.

I still disagree. I find the exploration great in this game, and every nook/cranny has something to find, whether its seeker coins, chests with gear, money, other items,...etc. Even some of the caves are fun to explore because you don't know what you will fin in them.

Maybe your suffering from open world fatigue which is making you feel this way? As someone who selectivity chooses they types of open world games to play I am finding the exploration in DD2 more engaging then most.

Just for comparison the most recent Action RPG open world games I have played were Ghost of Tushima (on playstation), BoTW and Elden Ring. With Ghost I was bored after 10-15 hours so I never got even close to finishing it. With BoTW I was bored because the map was too big for its own good. With ER I liked the initial open world but once the novelty wore off I never had any desire to replay that game again (maybe I will give it a try at another time).

So far with DD2 I quite enjoy the exploration in comparison to other open world RPGs. There is no pointless things dotted all over the map and its up to you to explore what you want, so you are rewarded for your own exploration not the game telling you to go here or go there.

To each their own but as someone who has ben tired of the open world formula for years, I really enjoy the aimlessness that this game has ans coupled with its other systems I enjoy it a lot.

[Mike]

Originally posted by Tsikaz:

Sadly, the small bestiary and low difficulty once arrived in late game or even ng+, without any scaling give quite negative points

I think the bestiary is fine and has plenty of variety but some are overused more then others (goblins mostly). I would love a randomized mode in this game where undead, skeletons, liches, can be fought in daylight and mixed with other enemies to make encounters even more hectic.

Like the one time I ran into a Dullahan and a ogre at the same time, or a griffin and Ogre at the same time. there needs to be more of THAT.

[Netsa]

Originally posted by Mike:

Originally posted by Netsa:

Combat and exploration aren't the same thing, that's why I'm criticizing the open world here. The combat is fine enough, but the exploration is bad. If you took out all of the enemies aboveground, this game would become bad. The same isn't true of other open world games.

I still disagree. I find the exploration great in this game, and every nook/cranny has something to find, whether its seeker coins, chests with gear, money, other items,...etc. Even some of the caves are fun to explore because you don't know what you will fin in them.

Maybe your suffering from open world fatigue which is making you feel this way? As someone who selectivity chooses they types of open world games to play I am finding the exploration in DD2 more engaging then most.

Just for comparison the most recent Action RPG open world games I have played were Ghost of Tushima (on playstation), BoTW and Elden Ring. With Ghost I was bored after 10-15 hours so I never got even close to finishing it. With BoTW I was bored because the map was too big for its own good. With ER I liked the initial open world but once the novelty wore off I never had any desire to replay that game again (maybe I will give it a try at another time).

So far with DD2 I quite enjoy the exploration in comparison to other open world RPGs. There is no pointless things dotted all over the map and its up to you to explore what you want, so you are rewarded for your own exploration not the game telling you to go here or go there.

To each their own but as someone who has ben tired of the open world formula for years, I really enjoy the aimlessness that this game has ans coupled with its other systems I enjoy it a lot.

But that's why it doesn't beat Elden Ring. ER had things to find other than tokens and chests. You can search every nook and cranny here and you will find... those 2 things. Elden Ring got way more elaborate than that.

The previous game I was playing before this was Cyberpunk. I did very little exploring in that game and I still think it had better exploration. "Open world fatigue" sounds like it implies that I'm not exploring. I haven't beaten the game yet. I've been going out of my way to do any side quests I find and level up different vocations, and I've seen nothing particularly unique or out of the ordinary.

I haven't played GoT, but BotW did an okay job of this, too, mainly because it made up for the somewhat barren world by giving you amazing traversal options. Swimming, mounts, gliding, and the ability to climb any and everything. While you were searching around, you were likely to find new shrines (caves), korok seeds (analogous to Seeker Tokens), and extra gear (chests), but not only were those 3 things done better than they are in DD, but extra stuff like mazes and horses spiced things up. BotW had to be confident in its pure exploration since it started by directing you straight towards the final boss.

If you could rush the final boss in Dragon's Dogma, everyone would do it and then complain about how short the game is. The world just doesn't have that draw.

I've been exploring since people were telling me in another thread how amazing exploring is, and I haven't felt rewarded for the effort. I just get bogged down by my character constantly wheezing like he has asthma, I fight another hundred monsters for more loot, I camp, do it again, and by the end... I have more of the map uncovered.

The way you describing this, it sounds like you would explore the map no matter what the game rewarded you with just because there's a lot of land to cover. Am I wrong?

[Mike]

Originally posted by Netsa:

But that's why it doesn't beat Elden Ring. ER had things to find other than tokens and chests. You can search every nook and cranny here and you will find... those 2 things. Elden Ring got way more elaborate than that.

The previous game I was playing before this was Cyberpunk. I did very little exploring in that game and I still think it had better exploration. "Open world fatigue" sounds like it implies that I'm not exploring. I haven't beaten the game yet. I've been going out of my way to do any side quests I find and level up different vocations, and I've seen nothing particularly unique or out of the ordinary.

I haven't played GoT, but BotW did an okay job of this, too, mainly because it made up for the somewhat barren world by giving you amazing traversal options. Swimming, mounts, gliding, and the ability to climb any and everything. While you were searching around, you were likely to find new shrines (caves), korok seeds (analogous to Seeker Tokens), and extra gear (chests), but not only were those 3 things done better than they are in DD, but extra stuff like mazes and horses spiced things up. BotW had to be confident in its pure exploration since it started by directing you straight towards the final boss.

If you could rush the final boss in Dragon's Dogma, everyone would do it and then complain about how short the game is. The world just doesn't have that draw.

I've been exploring since people were telling me in another thread how amazing exploring is, and I haven't felt rewarded for the effort. I just get bogged down by my character constantly wheezing like he has asthma, I fight another hundred monsters for more loot, I camp, do it again, and by the end... I have more of the map uncovered.

The way you describing this, it sounds like you would explore the map no matter what the game rewarded you with just because there's a lot of land to cover. Am I wrong?

LOL you are 100% wrong in your assesment. Have you not found ANY gear/weapons from exploring in DD2? You are acting like you find nothing in the open world and its just a barren wasteland with nothing in it, when that is not true in the slightest. I have found every manner of gear, weapons, rings, RD cystals, money, and even the beaten off the path side quest....etc while exploring in DD2, and not "just seeker tokens" as you keep focusing on.

You want to know the difference between the exploration in DD2 and ER? Well ER has tons of loot/gear to find that is a fact and I won't deny that but most of it is so spread apart you are literally running acorss huge swaths of land to get to that dungeon, or area, unless you are in one the "premium dungeons".

While in DD2 chests/gear is decently spaced apart, to the point where very little have I been exploring and been like "man this is boring because I not finding anything good" lol. I have found all kinds of weapons/loot exploring in DD2, and DD2 has that good dripfed apprach where as soon as you reach that one chest, you see another in the distance, and the cycle repeats pretty often.

I'm sorry but if your going to objectively say that there is nothing to find in the open world, I have to ask are you playing the same game?

[Fractured]

Originally posted by Mike:

Originally posted by Netsa:

But that's why it doesn't beat Elden Ring. ER had things to find other than tokens and chests. You can search every nook and cranny here and you will find... those 2 things. Elden Ring got way more elaborate than that.

The previous game I was playing before this was Cyberpunk. I did very little exploring in that game and I still think it had better exploration. "Open world fatigue" sounds like it implies that I'm not exploring. I haven't beaten the game yet. I've been going out of my way to do any side quests I find and level up different vocations, and I've seen nothing particularly unique or out of the ordinary.

I haven't played GoT, but BotW did an okay job of this, too, mainly because it made up for the somewhat barren world by giving you amazing traversal options. Swimming, mounts, gliding, and the ability to climb any and everything. While you were searching around, you were likely to find new shrines (caves), korok seeds (analogous to Seeker Tokens), and extra gear (chests), but not only were those 3 things done better than they are in DD, but extra stuff like mazes and horses spiced things up. BotW had to be confident in its pure exploration since it started by directing you straight towards the final boss.

If you could rush the final boss in Dragon's Dogma, everyone would do it and then complain about how short the game is. The world just doesn't have that draw.

I've been exploring since people were telling me in another thread how amazing exploring is, and I haven't felt rewarded for the effort. I just get bogged down by my character constantly wheezing like he has asthma, I fight another hundred monsters for more loot, I camp, do it again, and by the end... I have more of the map uncovered.

The way you describing this, it sounds like you would explore the map no matter what the game rewarded you with just because there's a lot of land to cover. Am I wrong?

LOL you are 100% wrong in your assesment. Have you not found ANY gear/weapons from exploring in DD2? You are acting like you find nothing in the open world and its just a barren wasteland with nothing in it, when that is not true in the slightest. I have found every manner of gear, weapons, rings, RD cystals, money, and even the beaten off the path side quest....etc while exploring in DD2, and not "just seeker tokens" as you keep focusing on.

You want to know the difference between the exploration in DD2 and ER? Well ER has tons of loot/gear to find that is a fact and I won't deny that but most of it is so spread apart you are literally running acorss huge swaths of land to get to that dungeon, or area, unless you are in one the "premium dungeons".

While in DD2 chests/gear is decently spaced apart, to the point where very little have I been exploring and been like "man this is boring because I not finding anything good" lol. I have found all kinds of weapons/loot exploring in DD2, and DD2 has that good dripfed apprach where as soon as you reach that one chest, you see another in the distance, and the cycle repeats pretty often.

I'm sorry but if your going to objectively say that there is nothing to find in the open world, I have to ask are you playing the same game?

And I think you're both wrong. Unless I misunderstood the other.

ER exploration was more rewarding, because the places you explored were significantly more interesting in and of themselves. I think DD2 is gorgeous, but its not really diverse, ESPECIALLY the dungeons.

Loot wise, I find a lot more in DD2 than I have in ER, but the loot in ER was far more significant. I've changed my gear for each vocation on average 2-3 times. And I'm level 50 with 60+ hours, and I haven't even completed the initial Brant quests (AKA, almost entirely exploring). I don't think I've actually looted anything of use gear wise, besides rings? Everything has been bought.

Loot wise, I'd still say DD2 wins out. Open world exploration is still significantly better in ER imo, and far more rewarding just from an exploring standpoint by A LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOT.