Please keep Denuvo in the game

[Nall]

I want to be able to subsist entirely on made up complaints about performance and pirate's tears of rage as I play this game and they don't.

[LongTimeNoSiege]

Początkowo opublikowane przez Pheace:

Początkowo opublikowane przez LongTimeNoSiege:

It doesn't stop or postpone them.

This is just plain wrong.

Edit: Ow, your argument is they'll just buy the game instead, lol..

You really shouldn't have slept through primary school. You clearly can't read.

[Pheace]

Początkowo opublikowane przez LongTimeNoSiege:

Początkowo opublikowane przez Pheace:

This is just plain wrong.

Edit: Ow, your argument is they'll just buy the game instead, lol..

You really shouldn't have slept through primary school. You clearly can't read.

The only way i got that wrong is if you're implying every 'shady' key is a stolen one, lol. That'd make one hell of an argument.

[LongTimeNoSiege]

Początkowo opublikowane przez Pheace:

Początkowo opublikowane przez LongTimeNoSiege:

You really shouldn't have slept through primary school. You clearly can't read.

The only way i got that wrong is if you're implying every 'shady' key is a stolen one, lol. That'd make one hell of an argument.

The majority of them are stolen keys, either purchased with stolen cards, blood money, or from leftover review copies. That is if you're buying them for an insignificant price on launch of a game. If you're buying them years later, they're probably just keys they got when the game was on a deep sale. But that's not the context of what I was talking about.
The point is that pirates don't buy games. Preventing them from playing the game doesn't force them to buy it, it forces them to find other quasi-legal methods to play the game without giving the publisher money. If they can't do that, they just don't play it at all.

[Pheace]

I have no idea what blood money even is. Left over review copies yes, though with no big game that'll be more than 1% at best. Stolen CC"s sure, but nowhere near the majority or no one would bother anymore. Plenty of semi-legit key stores out there like CD-keys etc that are trustworthy and just get their keys for cheap or bulk. GG.deals has a whole list that is confirmed to get keys from publishers but are simply selling for a lower cut. (ofcourse, there's greyer sites than that).

One big one you missed is that lots of keys are (or at least were) resales from regions that had much lower prices. That and bundle keys.

> The point is that pirates don't buy games.

Except you stated the exact opposite when you said would-be pirates would buy game keys instead. Most game keys still lead to some form of income for the publishers, even if it's less (and I agree, certainly not always).

[LongTimeNoSiege]

Początkowo opublikowane przez Pheace:

I have no idea what blood money even is. Left over review copies yes, though with no big game that'll be more than 1% at best. Stolen CC"s sure, but nowhere near the majority or no one would bother anymore. Plenty of semi-legit key stores out there like CD-keys etc that are trustworthy and just get their keys for cheap or bulk. GG.deals has a whole list that is confirmed to get keys from publishers but are simply selling for a lower cut. (ofcourse, there's greyer sites than that).

One big one you missed is that lots of keys are (or at least were) resales from regions that had much lower prices. That and bundle keys.

> The point is that pirates don't buy games.

Except you stated the exact opposite when you said would-be pirates would buy game keys instead. Most game keys still lead to some form of income for the publishers, even if it's less (and I agree, certainly not always).

Blood money meaning criminal money. Money laundering. That's what most of the sites selling "bulk" keys are. Do you really think key sites can stay up from the tiny margins of selling discounted keys at a slightly smaller discount? No, of course not - and nevermind the fact that pirates aren't going to buy a game from a key site for anything less than an 80% discount. Most of the people buying those keys are people in other regions who get ♥♥♥♥♥♥ by Steam regional pricing or other legitimate customers. Pirates go to the websites that are selling keys for brand new games at $20 or less - which are all illegitimate. Hence why I specified "shady key sites," and not "all key sites" in my post that you failed to read. Buying a stolen key is no more "buying the game" than buying a crack would be. With your logic, pirates never pirate games, because they paid cracking scene groups to crack games for them, therefore they bought the game.
The point is that Denuvo offers literally zero provable benefit to sales. Any boost to sales a game gets from having DRM implemented is at best, theoretical and nebulous, and at worst, an active detriment to sales (there is about as much proof of the latter as there is for the former). DRM exists solely to please shareholders, it has nothing to do with increasing sales, it has very little to do with stopping piracy. It's all about making the customers' product worse to appease shareholders. If you are a customer and you support DRM, you are actively saying you prefer your products to be worse to support people who don't use them, and will gladly pay for that privilege.

[Drako110]

Początkowo opublikowane przez Nall:

Początkowo opublikowane przez Kaezeribato:

You must be extremely ignorant if you think pirate complain about denuvo... All they do is wait and play another hacked game... You know, that why they are called pirate. But it's probably too hard to understand.

Lol, I can go to /r/crackwatch right now and find about *checks notes* infinity topics ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ about denuvo, sandwiched between the topics where people debate if EMPRESS is a girl, a boy, or a group.

Początkowo opublikowane przez Leoscar:

It takes pirates maybe half a day to have a torrent ready. Not sure what you're talking about.

There's only one group/person who regularly cracks Denuvo protections these days, and they tend to focus on the bigger games. DD2 ain't it.

Come on pirates, keep crying here, if you go to other topics I have to go there to read your dumb whiny crap, I want it all right here so I can enjoy it.

Pirates will either get this game, or will play something else. I probably reply to a bait but oh well, you won't get any award from me.

The only one affected by it will be people that bought it. As we will have 2 ♥♥♥♥♥♥ DRM in our systems.

[Drako110]

Początkowo opublikowane przez LongTimeNoSiege:

Początkowo opublikowane przez Pheace:

The only way i got that wrong is if you're implying every 'shady' key is a stolen one, lol. That'd make one hell of an argument.

The majority of them are stolen keys, either purchased with stolen cards, blood money, or from leftover review copies. That is if you're buying them for an insignificant price on launch of a game. If you're buying them years later, they're probably just keys they got when the game was on a deep sale. But that's not the context of what I was talking about.
The point is that pirates don't buy games. Preventing them from playing the game doesn't force them to buy it, it forces them to find other quasi-legal methods to play the game without giving the publisher money. If they can't do that, they just don't play it at all.

I honestly don't care. If it's cheaper, why not?
In today world, where we have game that cost 80Euros, has MTX and 2 DRMs.
Publishers have no high ground. They as scummy as it gets.
Not to mention you had attemts with redshell to even spy on you and get your data for additional money.
Example is always taken from the top.
You are politician and break laws constantly? You have no argument against your subjects/citizens treating the law the exact same way you do.
Welcome to the world where morality no longer exist. Enjoy you stay.
Also Mafias take less cut than governments do. And since in my book those two are hardly different, I see no point in caring about it.

[VDRSK]

Początkowo opublikowane przez LongTimeNoSiege:

It doesn't stop or postpone them. It doesn't do anything. It stops people who were never going to buy the game from playing the game. It also prevents people whose PCs are barely good enough to run the game from playing the game, and alienates anyone with standards from playing the game unless they care enough about it to buy it despite the fact that malware is included in their purchase.

This paragraph is highly contradictory,

"It doesn't stop or postpone them ... It stops people ... It also prevents people"

Which is it? It does or it doesn't

Początkowo opublikowane przez LongTimeNoSiege:

Denuvo literally does nothing except waste the publisher's money to appease shareholders. At best, the only effect it has on sales is forcing a tiny handful of would-be pirates to buy a stolen key from a shady website. So really all it does is support criminal activity.

As we've established it stops and postpones piracy, If you look at the piracy subreddit you see the occasional post of people buying the game because it took too long to be cracked so the use of "Literally" would be incorrect.

I dislike Denuvo but I dislike thieves even more. These games take millions to make I am not about to tell the publishers they shouldn't be able to protect their game from thieves.

[Q]

Początkowo opublikowane przez VDRSK:

Początkowo opublikowane przez LongTimeNoSiege:

It doesn't stop or postpone them. It doesn't do anything. It stops people who were never going to buy the game from playing the game. It also prevents people whose PCs are barely good enough to run the game from playing the game, and alienates anyone with standards from playing the game unless they care enough about it to buy it despite the fact that malware is included in their purchase.

This paragraph is highly contradictory,

"It doesn't stop or postpone them ... It stops people ... It also prevents people"

Which is it? It does or it doesn't

Początkowo opublikowane przez LongTimeNoSiege:

Denuvo literally does nothing except waste the publisher's money to appease shareholders. At best, the only effect it has on sales is forcing a tiny handful of would-be pirates to buy a stolen key from a shady website. So really all it does is support criminal activity.

As we've established it stops and postpones piracy, If you look at the piracy subreddit you see the occasional post of people buying the game because it took too long to be cracked so the use of "Literally" would be incorrect.

I dislike Denuvo but I dislike thieves even more. These games take millions to make I am not about to tell the publishers they shouldn't be able to protect their game from thieves.

hahahaaa
the boogeyman is too scary, the big corpo has sucessfully brainwashed so many.

"home taping is killing music"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Home_Taping_Is_Killing_Music

https://www.reddit.com/r/Piracy/comments/d0gyl1/an_antipiracy_ad_from_the_80s/

"you wouldn't steal a car!!!!"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/You_Wouldn%27t_Steal_a_Car

Truth is that games, music, movies/tv industry is bigger and richer then ever, i thought piracy was killing em since late 70's how come they are so rich and powerful today, enough to invest so many millions in making games, something that didn't happened back then? i mean piracy was killing the industry... they have been preaching that for 50 years.

pirates are going to take your games away!!!! hurry get denuvo!!!! protect big multibillonare corpo at all costs!!!! please remove that tinfoil hat, its time.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jJVCDD2lhH0

Critical pengui has a much more reasonable, logic, pro-consumer insight and valid arguments.... "thieves" ahaha laughable.

[LongTimeNoSiege]

Początkowo opublikowane przez VDRSK:

Początkowo opublikowane przez LongTimeNoSiege:

It doesn't stop or postpone them. It doesn't do anything. It stops people who were never going to buy the game from playing the game. It also prevents people whose PCs are barely good enough to run the game from playing the game, and alienates anyone with standards from playing the game unless they care enough about it to buy it despite the fact that malware is included in their purchase.

This paragraph is highly contradictory,

"It doesn't stop or postpone them ... It stops people ... It also prevents people"

Which is it? It does or it doesn't

"Seatbelts don't stop crash fatalities, it stops passengers from moving around during a crash, and helps prevent some injuries."
Wow, I said "it doesn't stop" and "it stops" and "it prevents" in the same sentence. What a contradictory statement!
Your inability to read is not an argument.

Początkowo opublikowane przez VDRSK:

Początkowo opublikowane przez LongTimeNoSiege:

Denuvo literally does nothing except waste the publisher's money to appease shareholders. At best, the only effect it has on sales is forcing a tiny handful of would-be pirates to buy a stolen key from a shady website. So really all it does is support criminal activity.

As we've established it stops and postpones piracy, If you look at the piracy subreddit you see the occasional post of people buying the game because it took too long to be cracked so the use of "Literally" would be incorrect.

I dislike Denuvo but I dislike thieves even more. These games take millions to make I am not about to tell the publishers they shouldn't be able to protect their game from thieves.

We haven't established it stops and postpones piracy. You can't do that, because that's as possible as proving the existence or nonexistence of god. You could find as many examples of each of games without DRM selling poorly, games with DRM selling poorly, games without DRM selling well, or games with DRM selling well. None of those prove anything regarding the actual effect of said DRM on the sales of the game outside corner cases where the games are rendered completely unplayable by DRM, which again, aren't a relevant argument (and would be against DRM if they were). For every post you find on a piracy subreddit of someone buying the game because they couldn't pirate it (which again, is likely from a key site where the publisher is losing money regardless if they see any at all) I can find a post of someone avoiding the purchase of a game because it includes DRM and they don't want to pay for a game that requires malware to run.
Anecdotal evidence is not an argument and that is the reason why I didn't mention boycotters or the many posts on this very forum/thread of people saying they will not purchase the game because of Denuvo. If you have a real argument, or a valid counter to mine, post it. Otherwise, sod off and lick the boot elsewhere.
If you really hated thieves, you would be attacking actual thieves. Not attacking paying customers who don't want malware in their $70 videogame.

[Echorion]

honestly I am fine with Denuvo as long as it the game can be played offline without issue indefinitely; and as long as the DRM is removed after 1 or 2 years.

Imo there should be laws stating DRM has to be removed from a product after a certain amount of time has passed,
Someday they will start putting it on console and disc/cartridge only games too and it will mean older games can only be played by spending thousands and thousands of dollars to a scalper on Ebay- ♥♥♥♥ that.

[LongTimeNoSiege]

Początkowo opublikowane przez Echorion:

honestly I am fine with Denuvo as long as it the game can be played offline without issue indefinitely; .

So you're not fine with Denuvo.

[VDRSK]

Początkowo opublikowane przez LongTimeNoSiege:

Wow, I said "it doesn't stop" and "it stops" and "it prevents" in the same sentence. What a contradictory statement!
Your inability to read is not an argument.

The "..." in my initial quote is used to represent the words in between so I didn't write the full thing however the use of "it doesn't stop" while in the the very next sentence saying "it stops people" is indeed very contradictory. Which you have yet to provide a argument on why it isn't, which is why I imagine you went for using a Ad Hominem because you don't have an argument.

Początkowo opublikowane przez LongTimeNoSiege:

We haven't established it stops and postpones piracy. You can't do that, because that's as possible as proving the existence or nonexistence of god.

You mentioned yourself it stops piracy, unless you want to argue semantics so instead I can say "It stops piracy until the protection has been cracked." if you would like.

Początkowo opublikowane przez LongTimeNoSiege:

is likely from a key site where the publisher is losing money regardless

not entirely true some devs have gone on twitter to say that key sites can actually be better for the developer as they don't have to give a cut to steam so they actually may get more money assuming it's from a site like GMG or Humble etc.

Początkowo opublikowane przez LongTimeNoSiege:

Anecdotal evidence is not an argument and that is the reason why I didn't mention boycotters or the many posts on this very forum/thread of people saying they will not purchase the game because of Denuvo. If you have a real argument, or a valid counter to mine, post it. Otherwise, sod off and lick the boot elsewhere.
If you really hated thieves, you would be attacking actual thieves. Not attacking paying customers who don't want malware in their $70 videogame.

It seems you may not be aware of what you are arguing about.

Denuvo stops piracy until it cracked that is how it works and in that time people may buy it or not that isn't really the point even if it stops one person.

Also by definition Denuvo isn't malware.

[Unknow]

Pirates will play with more performance. I don't see how they would cry ,Normally the crack comes after a few patches since it is common for AAA to come with terrible performance + bugs that break the game

[LongTimeNoSiege]

Początkowo opublikowane przez VDRSK:

Początkowo opublikowane przez LongTimeNoSiege:

Wow, I said "it doesn't stop" and "it stops" and "it prevents" in the same sentence. What a contradictory statement!
Your inability to read is not an argument.

The "..." in my initial quote is used to represent the words in between so I didn't write the full thing however the use of "it doesn't stop" while in the the very next sentence saying "it stops people" is indeed very contradictory.

Admitting that you're removing context does not change the fact that you are removing context.
"Seatbelts don't stop fatalities, it just stops movement in the car which can reduce injury." Please explain what is wrong with this sentence, because your argument is literally saying that it's not correct because it says "it doesn't stop" followed by "it stops."
"It doesn't stop X, it stops Y" is not an invalid statement. Your inability to read is not an argument.

Początkowo opublikowane przez VDRSK:

which is why I imagine you went for using a Ad Hominem because you don't have an argument.

Ad hominem is an insult in lieu of an argument, not an insult in addition to an argument. Learn what words mean before you use them please.

Początkowo opublikowane przez VDRSK:

Początkowo opublikowane przez LongTimeNoSiege:

We haven't established it stops and postpones piracy. You can't do that, because that's as possible as proving the existence or nonexistence of god.

You mentioned yourself it stops piracy, unless you want to argue semantics so instead I can say "It stops piracy until the protection has been cracked." if you would like.

But I didn't say "it doesn't stop piracy." Nice strawman fallacy - please go look that one up too while you're looking up Ad Hominem. Then go actually read what my post says and stop making yourself look like a fool.

Początkowo opublikowane przez VDRSK:

not entirely true some devs have gone on twitter to say that key sites can actually be better for the developer as they don't have to give a cut to steam so they actually may get more money assuming it's from a site like GMG or Humble etc.

Which isn't relevant for the immediate release of a $70 videogame.

Początkowo opublikowane przez VDRSK:

Początkowo opublikowane przez LongTimeNoSiege:

Anecdotal evidence is not an argument and that is the reason why I didn't mention boycotters or the many posts on this very forum/thread of people saying they will not purchase the game because of Denuvo. If you have a real argument, or a valid counter to mine, post it. Otherwise, sod off and lick the boot elsewhere.
If you really hated thieves, you would be attacking actual thieves. Not attacking paying customers who don't want malware in their $70 videogame.

It seems you may not be aware of what you are arguing about.

It seems like you aren't. You followed this statement up with a non-sequitur (you can look that one up too if you want). You have done literally nothing to address my actual point, you don't even know what my actual point is and you seem to think I am stating that pirates can still pirate a game with Denuvo in it.