Please remove winning out of the game

[Harris]

Over the years, Enlisted has become more and more individualistic, the epitome of this being silver awards for battle heroes. Suggestions for squads based around teamwork have been discarded, and instead the squads we've been getting are all based on the philosophy of being self-sufficient with some of them sidestepping the need for engineers as their whole shtick.

Between battle hero awards and the reward for picking random faction, winning bonus has become increasingly sidelined and 30 score per spawn for building rally points is a joke. Teamwork and playing to win has become a trap for newbies and die-hard F2P players. Whenever my team runs out of points and I go into spectating, I see my remaining teammates sniping, flying planes, manning anti-tank guns, digging trenches... doing literally anything outside of playing the objective.

The merge with its failed BR system has only exacerbated this issue, creating the situation where no matter how much invested you are - you are never guaranteed fair games unless you play in a premade.

What illustrates the issue best is the rank requirements being increased not too long ago. In particular, at higher ranks you can get up to +2 points per game, 1 for winning and 1 for battle hero. Meanwhile you get -1 point for losing, and -1 for dropping prematurely.

This creates an annoying reality of incredibly lopsided games, where I'm either handed 2 points just for existing OR I have to sweat for 30 minutes straight and be #1 on my team with my team ultimately losing anyway, just so that I lose no points afterwards - with no in between...

To understand how nonsensical this is - I need to somehow win more than 100 games for a gold soldier order, meanwhile I can trivially acquire 20k score for a marathon event in 2-3 games inside a plane and earn the same order much, MUCH faster.

Same story with daily tasks - whenever I see the "win 3 battles" I reroll it because it's that one task which is decided not by my skill but rather if I'll get 9 braindead teammates this time round.

This clash between mission design and design of some squads that should nominally encourage playing the objective and teamwork and the actual meta is becoming too in my face to ignore.

So as far as feedback goes, here are the changes I'd personally make:

1) remove the winning bonus
2) remove the "win X battles" tasks from the daily/event pool
3) increase battle hero payouts to 200 silver/award and additional research points
4) calculate battle hero awards per battle instead of per team - reducing the number of battle heroes while preventing the situation where you can be handed the award simply because nobody else on your team picked that squad
5) change the rank progression for higher ranks to be based on completing games rather than winning them
6) possibly rebalance the number of points needed to compensate

This changes would lead to a reality where rank basically becomes indication of online, people are no longer as obsessed with winning, as a result dropping would decline and flaws of matchmaking would be less frustrating to experience due to lower impact on progression.

[Gracey Face]

Cosmo 🐲 a écrit :

While i agree with most of what you say, your numbers might be off.
Both me and my buddy have bought more than a year sub, and we have also both had subs more than once (we both started playing back in 21 before the game was on steam).
We also both bought the Stalingrad campaign when that was an option.
I have also bought several units (and no they are not stronger, they are more of a fun thing to use).
When Christmas sales start, i plan on buying a sub again, for a year.

More capability is stronger, you just don't want to acknowledge it because of what it says about you. Don't feel shame about buying your pay to win stuff, there wouldn't be a game if you didn't, and it's generally not made to be oppressive, just a little nudge on the scales.

Also the numbers are from a financial report from a company called SWRVE that has its hands in a bunch of online games. It was a big news article about 8 years ago now :D. But it just was another drop in the bucket as these kinds of figures had been suggested by other companies (ie Rockstar is where the whole minnows and whales idea comes from).

[Cosmo 🐲]

Gracey Face a écrit :

Cosmo 🐲 a écrit :

While i agree with most of what you say, your numbers might be off.
Both me and my buddy have bought more than a year sub, and we have also both had subs more than once (we both started playing back in 21 before the game was on steam).
We also both bought the Stalingrad campaign when that was an option.
I have also bought several units (and no they are not stronger, they are more of a fun thing to use).
When Christmas sales start, i plan on buying a sub again, for a year.

More capability is stronger, you just don't want to acknowledge it because of what it says about you. Don't feel shame about buying your pay to win stuff, there wouldn't be a game if you didn't, and it's generally not made to be oppressive, just a little nudge on the scales.

Also the numbers are from a financial report from a company called SWRVE that has its hands in a bunch of online games. It was a big news article about 8 years ago now :D. But it just was another drop in the bucket as these kinds of figures had been suggested by other companies (ie Rockstar is where the whole minnows and whales idea comes from).

You are cute that you have to use the demeaning tactics.. (from a private profile even)
I wonder what that says about you.

And you are wrong, here look the stats up on the guns if you want : https://forum.enlisted.net/en/t/enlisted-resource/121150

[Gracey Face]

Cosmo 🐲 a écrit :

I never demeaned you.

Also premium squads do have advantages, from access to unique weapons (a notable example being the BR2 russian semi-auto sniper radiomen), or earlier access to weapons, different perk point amounts, extra exp and silver gain rates, etc. You always have advantages for premium squads, which is why people buy them.

[Cosmo 🐲]

Gracey Face a écrit :

I never demeaned you.

Also you :

Gracey Face a écrit :

.... because of what it says about you..

Gracey Face a écrit :

Cosmo 🐲 a écrit :

I never demeaned you.

Also premium squads do have advantages, from access to unique weapons (a notable example being the BR2 russian semi-auto sniper radiomen), or earlier access to weapons, different perk point amounts, extra exp and silver gain rates, etc. You always have advantages for premium squads, which is why people buy them.

The perks are the same, I double-checked the last time someone with a private profile made these same claims. Just because a weapon is unique doesn’t mean it has an advantage. To my knowledge, the only unit with a real advantage is the paratroopers since they can drop behind enemy lines.

I have a premium tank. Sure, it’s got a lot of armor, but the gun is terrible, and the free tank at the same BR performs way better. I also have a premium rifle squad, and it’s not better than a free rifle squad with free gear—it’s just fun to use because it’s unique. Honestly, the free guerrillas are better than the premium ones—the PPSh-41 is an absolute beast.

But really, I’m not having this debate again. I’m not sure if you’re the same person from a new profile or not, but we’ve been over all this before. The claims you’re making have been debunked, not just by me but by plenty of other players as well. All the information you need is in the link that i posted.

---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ----

I won’t respond any further to this. I’ve got better things to do than repeatedly debunk false claims. As I said, this has already been addressed, and we’ve had this debate plenty of times.

EOD..

[Gracey Face]

Cosmo 🐲 a écrit :

That's not demeaning you. You're denying something that is simple reality and the reason why you're doing it is because people have internalised ideas of who/what they are and find it difficult or impossible to engage with things that shake these ideas. You obviously think you'd never "cheat" and so the fact that premium squads have advantages, so are "cheating" (even if incredibly minor) is something you're not willing to acknowledge. It's not demeaning you, it's just a standard human behaviour.

Many of the premium weapons have advantages, even those which have tradeoffs are an advantage because you can play into scenarios which benefit from their positive tradeoff and minimize thier weakness which is a capability a free player doesn't have, and even if you just do a thought experiment where the squads are in all respects the same the accellerated rewards you get are an advantage.

Premium squads are an advantage. It is simple fact. And it is a good thing that they do have an advantage as people like yourself paying for those advantages is what keeps F2P games afloat.

[Cosmo 🐲]

Gracey Face a écrit :

Cosmo 🐲 a écrit :

That's not demeaning you. You're denying something that is simple reality and the reason why you're doing it is because people have internalised ideas of who/what they are and find it difficult or impossible to engage with things that shake these ideas. You obviously think you'd never "cheat" and so the fact that premium squads have advantages, so are "cheating" (even if incredibly minor) is something you're not willing to acknowledge. It's not demeaning you, it's just a standard human behaviour.

Many of the premium weapons have advantages, even those which have tradeoffs are an advantage because you can play into scenarios which benefit from their positive tradeoff and minimize thier weakness which is a capability a free player doesn't have, and even if you just do a thought experiment where the squads are in all respects the same the accellerated rewards you get are an advantage.

Premium squads are an advantage. It is simple fact. And it is a good thing that they do have an advantage as people like yourself paying for those advantages is what keeps F2P games afloat.

Please just take a look at the link I posted, find any premium weapon, and let me know exactly what advantages it has that aren't available to free players.

[Gracey Face]

Cosmo 🐲 a écrit :

Please just take a look at the link I posted, find any premium weapon, and let me know exactly what advantages it has that aren't available to free players.

Cosmo 🐲 a écrit :

I won’t respond any further to this. I’ve got better things to do than repeatedly debunk false claims. As I said, this has already been addressed, and we’ve had this debate plenty of times.

EOD..

You shouldn't dramatically storm out if you do not have the self control to actually storm out. All it does is show you're emotional and not able to control it.

Anyway I've already done what you ask, and you ignored it (because of the whole emotionality thing). I don't even need to though, here's a simple thing. Do you get experience and silver bonuses for using premiums? Even if the premium squads were the exact same as the F2Ps, that's an advantage. That is your QED (not EOD).

[Cosmo 🐲]

Gracey Face a écrit :

Cosmo 🐲 a écrit :

Please just take a look at the link I posted, find any premium weapon, and let me know exactly what advantages it has that aren't available to free players.

Cosmo 🐲 a écrit :

I won’t respond any further to this. I’ve got better things to do than repeatedly debunk false claims. As I said, this has already been addressed, and we’ve had this debate plenty of times.

EOD..

You shouldn't dramatically storm out if you do not have the self control to actually storm out. All it does is show you're emotional and not able to control it.

Anyway I've already done what you ask, and you ignored it (because of the whole emotionality thing). I don't even need to though, here's a simple thing. Do you get experience and silver bonuses for using premiums? Even if the premium squads were the exact same as the F2Ps, that's an advantage. That is your QED (not EOD).

lol..
dw im not emotional, even when you try to bait it.

I responded because i knew you could not mention any specifics, just vague arguments that are just bs.

And no the USSR (not Russia) SKT-40 is not better than the SVT-38, it even have more recoil, and Japans Type Otsu rifle is much better.

Also the Silver economy is fine after the change, and im not sure what you are even onto with that argument, if anything thats pay to progress fater, not pay to win.

You get silver thrown at you in the free battle pass AND daily missions, you even get golden weapon orders in the FREE battle pass..

Im still waithing for you to point out any specific premium units or weapons to be OP. Until you do that this discussion between you and me IS over. (And dont worry, im still fine)

[BooralKing]

don't give this guy jester he is farming the points for some reason

Look at his post history