Please remove winning out of the game

[Harris]

Over the years, Enlisted has become more and more individualistic, the epitome of this being silver awards for battle heroes. Suggestions for squads based around teamwork have been discarded, and instead the squads we've been getting are all based on the philosophy of being self-sufficient with some of them sidestepping the need for engineers as their whole shtick.

Between battle hero awards and the reward for picking random faction, winning bonus has become increasingly sidelined and 30 score per spawn for building rally points is a joke. Teamwork and playing to win has become a trap for newbies and die-hard F2P players. Whenever my team runs out of points and I go into spectating, I see my remaining teammates sniping, flying planes, manning anti-tank guns, digging trenches... doing literally anything outside of playing the objective.

The merge with its failed BR system has only exacerbated this issue, creating the situation where no matter how much invested you are - you are never guaranteed fair games unless you play in a premade.

What illustrates the issue best is the rank requirements being increased not too long ago. In particular, at higher ranks you can get up to +2 points per game, 1 for winning and 1 for battle hero. Meanwhile you get -1 point for losing, and -1 for dropping prematurely.

This creates an annoying reality of incredibly lopsided games, where I'm either handed 2 points just for existing OR I have to sweat for 30 minutes straight and be #1 on my team with my team ultimately losing anyway, just so that I lose no points afterwards - with no in between...

To understand how nonsensical this is - I need to somehow win more than 100 games for a gold soldier order, meanwhile I can trivially acquire 20k score for a marathon event in 2-3 games inside a plane and earn the same order much, MUCH faster.

Same story with daily tasks - whenever I see the "win 3 battles" I reroll it because it's that one task which is decided not by my skill but rather if I'll get 9 braindead teammates this time round.

This clash between mission design and design of some squads that should nominally encourage playing the objective and teamwork and the actual meta is becoming too in my face to ignore.

So as far as feedback goes, here are the changes I'd personally make:

1) remove the winning bonus
2) remove the "win X battles" tasks from the daily/event pool
3) increase battle hero payouts to 200 silver/award and additional research points
4) calculate battle hero awards per battle instead of per team - reducing the number of battle heroes while preventing the situation where you can be handed the award simply because nobody else on your team picked that squad
5) change the rank progression for higher ranks to be based on completing games rather than winning them
6) possibly rebalance the number of points needed to compensate

This changes would lead to a reality where rank basically becomes indication of online, people are no longer as obsessed with winning, as a result dropping would decline and flaws of matchmaking would be less frustrating to experience due to lower impact on progression.

[Anathema]

Is this a sh!tpost?

[Cosmo 🐲]

Just make it so that premades go against other premades, and SoloQ have their own MM.

[mikeypro]

It would be nice if team play was rewarded more, getting an entire capture point nets you like .. 150, 100 points? Destroying a vehicle gets you like 1k.

I dont know the exact numbers i just know when all i do is cap, my points are low if i don't have 50 kills, and if i kill 4+ vehicles i'm always top 3.

But it seems like working to win as a team is NOT rewarded so you opt to get more points and money for killing people and vehicles when the match is trash.

[Harris]

Originally posted by Anathema:

Is this a sh!tpost?

Nah, just my observations after playing for the past few years.

Originally posted by Cosmo 🐲:

Just make it so that premades go against other premades, and SoloQ have their own MM.

If I had my way, no team-based multiplayer game came with the feature of playing with your friends. The impact on balance is just too much. And if premades could only play against other premades they'd have insane waiting times and such games still wouldn't necessarily be balanced.

Originally posted by mikeypro:

It would be nice if team play was rewarded more,

Yeah, but it's not gonna happen. They did not start awarding silver to best score farmers just to suddenly do a 180 and turn Enlisted into Hell Let Loose. Why do you think they have been adding APC and paratroopers instead of, say, officers that get to coordinate the team? Because players in Enlisted want to do their own thing independent of others, not be coordinated.

Originally posted by mikeypro:

it seems like working to win as a team is NOT rewarded

Winning bonus is a multiplier of silver/research points. Winning does nothing for you if you didn't get enough score to begin with. If I spend the whole game in the plane and you spend the whole game building rallies I will always have more score than you. If the team happens to win - that's great. If the team doesn't happen to win - I always have my score to fall back upon.

This score slave mentality is being forced on us by progression which is solely based on score. Just look at the marathon events with event squads being routinely better than tech tree ones, where you're supposed to get 20k score every other day (pure score btw, not after winning multiplier). Do you accomplish it in 10 games by playing the objective, or in 2 games by sitting in a plane? We all know the answer.

[☠Ⓐ︎Ⓝ︎Ⓥ︎Ⓘ︎Ⓛ︎☠ ᚨᚾᚡᛁᛚ ®™]

as long as they dont start adding women that want to be men and men who want to be women to the game. like some triple aaa crap studios are doing

[Cosmo 🐲]

Originally posted by Harris:

Originally posted by Anathema:

Is this a sh!tpost?

Nah, just my observations after playing for the past few years.

Originally posted by Cosmo 🐲:

Just make it so that premades go against other premades, and SoloQ have their own MM.

If I had my way, no team-based multiplayer game came with the feature of playing with your friends. The impact on balance is just too much. And if premades could only play against other premades they'd have insane waiting times and such games still wouldn't necessarily be balanced.

Originally posted by mikeypro:

It would be nice if team play was rewarded more,

Yeah, but it's not gonna happen. They did not start awarding silver to best score farmers just to suddenly do a 180 and turn Enlisted into Hell Let Loose. Why do you think they have been adding APC and paratroopers instead of, say, officers that get to coordinate the team? Because players in Enlisted want to do their own thing independent of others, not be coordinated.

Originally posted by mikeypro:

it seems like working to win as a team is NOT rewarded

Winning bonus is a multiplier of silver/research points. Winning does nothing for you if you didn't get enough score to begin with. If I spend the whole game in the plane and you spend the whole game building rallies I will always have more score than you. If the team happens to win - that's great. If the team doesn't happen to win - I always have my score to fall back upon.

This score slave mentality is being forced on us by progression which is solely based on score. Just look at the marathon events with event squads being routinely better than tech tree ones, where you're supposed to get 20k score every other day (pure score btw, not after winning multiplier). Do you accomplish it in 10 games by playing the objective, or in 2 games by sitting in a plane? We all know the answer.

I think playing with friends (pwf) is fine as long as they're matched against similarly sized pwf groups. The real issue is when it's a pwf group versus SoloQ, people just get stomped, and that’s only fun for one side. Plus, there should be a random delay from when players hit "ready" since some pwf groups double down by coordinating two groups of four in the same Discord, timing their "ready" presses to get into the same game. It’s a huge disadvantage for the other team, which just doesn’t stand a chance.

[mikeypro]

Originally posted by Harris:

Winning bonus is a multiplier of silver/research points. Winning does nothing for you if you didn't get enough score to begin with. If I spend the whole game in the plane and you spend the whole game building rallies I will always have more score than you. If the team happens to win - that's great. If the team doesn't happen to win - I always have my score to fall back upon.

This score slave mentality is being forced on us by progression which is solely based on score. Just look at the marathon events with event squads being routinely better than tech tree ones, where you're supposed to get 20k score every other day (pure score btw, not after winning multiplier). Do you accomplish it in 10 games by playing the objective, or in 2 games by sitting in a plane? We all know the answer.

Yup. Kills are highly rewarded versus teamplay. So we all rack up kills, vehicle destruction, lose the game but make top 5, get decent silver, good score, rank goes up.

[Anathema]

Originally posted by Cosmo 🐲:

Originally posted by Harris:

Nah, just my observations after playing for the past few years.



If I had my way, no team-based multiplayer game came with the feature of playing with your friends. The impact on balance is just too much. And if premades could only play against other premades they'd have insane waiting times and such games still wouldn't necessarily be balanced.



Yeah, but it's not gonna happen. They did not start awarding silver to best score farmers just to suddenly do a 180 and turn Enlisted into Hell Let Loose. Why do you think they have been adding APC and paratroopers instead of, say, officers that get to coordinate the team? Because players in Enlisted want to do their own thing independent of others, not be coordinated.



Winning bonus is a multiplier of silver/research points. Winning does nothing for you if you didn't get enough score to begin with. If I spend the whole game in the plane and you spend the whole game building rallies I will always have more score than you. If the team happens to win - that's great. If the team doesn't happen to win - I always have my score to fall back upon.

This score slave mentality is being forced on us by progression which is solely based on score. Just look at the marathon events with event squads being routinely better than tech tree ones, where you're supposed to get 20k score every other day (pure score btw, not after winning multiplier). Do you accomplish it in 10 games by playing the objective, or in 2 games by sitting in a plane? We all know the answer.

I think playing with friends (pwf) is fine as long as they're matched against similarly sized pwf groups. The real issue is when it's a pwf group versus SoloQ, people just get stomped, and that’s only fun for one side. Plus, there should be a random delay from when players hit "ready" since some pwf groups double down by coordinating two groups of four in the same Discord, timing their "ready" presses to get into the same game. It’s a huge disadvantage for the other team, which just doesn’t stand a chance.

encouraging playing with friends by making it more successful means you are more likely to do so, enhancing the social aspect of the game, this is good game design

[Voitt]

Originally posted by Anathema:

Originally posted by Cosmo 🐲:

I think playing with friends (pwf) is fine as long as they're matched against similarly sized pwf groups. The real issue is when it's a pwf group versus SoloQ, people just get stomped, and that’s only fun for one side. Plus, there should be a random delay from when players hit "ready" since some pwf groups double down by coordinating two groups of four in the same Discord, timing their "ready" presses to get into the same game. It’s a huge disadvantage for the other team, which just doesn’t stand a chance.

encouraging playing with friends by making it more successful means you are more likely to do so, enhancing the social aspect of the game, this is good game design

Its a good desing to have 4 players curb stomp solo players untill they give up? Does it bring more new players into the game when they get stomped 9 games out of 10. Hell no matchmaking new guy plays 3 bot matches and gets to fight team of seasoned veterans(4 of em are in a discord call together). No wonder the game can barely hit 5k players on steam when new players are driven off the game

[Anathema]

Originally posted by Voittosumma:

Originally posted by Anathema:

encouraging playing with friends by making it more successful means you are more likely to do so, enhancing the social aspect of the game, this is good game design

Its a good desing to have 4 players curb stomp solo players untill they give up? Does it bring more new players into the game when they get stomped 9 games out of 10. Hell no matchmaking new guy plays 3 bot matches and gets to fight team of seasoned veterans(4 of em are in a discord call together). No wonder the game can barely hit 5k players on steam when new players are driven off the game

That sounds more like a skill issue to me

[Voitt]

Originally posted by Anathema:

Originally posted by Voittosumma:

Its a good desing to have 4 players curb stomp solo players untill they give up? Does it bring more new players into the game when they get stomped 9 games out of 10. Hell no matchmaking new guy plays 3 bot matches and gets to fight team of seasoned veterans(4 of em are in a discord call together). No wonder the game can barely hit 5k players on steam when new players are driven off the game

That sounds more like a skill issue to me

The game not getting any new players is a skill issue or what is your point?

[Harris]

Originally posted by Anathema:

That sounds more like a skill issue to me

I was playing japan the other day and there were 4 guys with clan tag on my team. Other people were like, oh we don't even have to build rallies now, whatever we do we'll still win because of clan guys. What does that tell you?

Premades straight up rape whatever semblance of balance the game has and should not be allowed, period. "Skill" got nothing to do with it. You can be as good of a player as you want and have every single FOMO squad, but there's only so much you can do when outnumbered.

Originally posted by Voittosumma:

Its a good desing to have 4 players curb stomp solo players untill they give up?

I facepalmed so much at that take I didn't bother replying...

[Anathema]

Originally posted by Harris:

Originally posted by Anathema:

That sounds more like a skill issue to me

I was playing japan the other day and there were 4 guys with clan tag on my team. Other people were like, oh we don't even have to build rallies now, whatever we do we'll still win because of clan guys. What does that tell you?

Premades straight up rape whatever semblance of balance the game has and should not be allowed, period. "Skill" got nothing to do with it. You can be as good of a player as you want and have every single FOMO squad, but there's only so much you can do when outnumbered.

Originally posted by Voittosumma:

Its a good desing to have 4 players curb stomp solo players untill they give up?

I facepalmed so much at that take I didn't bother replying...

I just don't experience the issue you describe, and I think motivating people to socialize with each other is healthy for the game long term

[GABE]

Originally posted by Anathema:

Originally posted by Harris:

I was playing japan the other day and there were 4 guys with clan tag on my team. Other people were like, oh we don't even have to build rallies now, whatever we do we'll still win because of clan guys. What does that tell you?

Premades straight up rape whatever semblance of balance the game has and should not be allowed, period. "Skill" got nothing to do with it. You can be as good of a player as you want and have every single FOMO squad, but there's only so much you can do when outnumbered.



I facepalmed so much at that take I didn't bother replying...

I just don't experience the issue you describe, and I think motivating people to socialize with each other is healthy for the game long term

What are my socializing options if I soloQ? I'm genuinely curious.

[Voitt]

Originally posted by Anathema:

Originally posted by Harris:

I was playing japan the other day and there were 4 guys with clan tag on my team. Other people were like, oh we don't even have to build rallies now, whatever we do we'll still win because of clan guys. What does that tell you?

Premades straight up rape whatever semblance of balance the game has and should not be allowed, period. "Skill" got nothing to do with it. You can be as good of a player as you want and have every single FOMO squad, but there's only so much you can do when outnumbered.



I facepalmed so much at that take I didn't bother replying...

I just don't experience the issue you describe, and I think motivating people to socialize with each other is healthy for the game long term

any tips how to socialize when soloq?