Is the difficulty everyone hates so much on Hardcore and Pro tied to framerate?

[Rocket]

I watched a speedrun of RE4 remake and the player switched the game's internal fps to 30 on Ashley's section to pass a knight on stairs that is somewhat difficult to avoid. This causes the knight to never attack in time.

Are we all artificially increasing the difficulty for ourselves by playing above 60, or even 30fps?

Could this be the reason some people have immense difficulty while others don't?

Because if you think about it, if enemies attack slower and you have time to react, then the game could become trivial.

Is it only knights affected, what else is affected by internal frame rate. By the way, I'm pretty sure refresh rate and fps changes have different outcomes. One is tied to the way the engine calculates things, the other is how it outputs the game to your monitor.

[ggAkatsukiP]

Nguyên văn bởi Persona Au Gratin:

Nguyên văn bởi ggAkatsukiP:

Can you input with a sentence that a peasant like me can understand? I'm not used to gaming language, hence I fail to understand what you are trying to convey

What is get pesetas with the same strategies lol

It's not "gaming language" that's your hang up here, you don't know what an antecedent is. In that regard, I'm not going to help you.

So I'm lefted here to never understand your message?
:/

[KuroTenshi]

Nguyên văn bởi RocketJump:

Basically what you more or less said, yeah I think that's lazy. In terms of RE4 original, I can understand making a game for a specific type of hardware and having to make it work. I can't be mad about a Gamecube game from 2005 being the way it is, but a port of that game or a game made KNOWINGLY with these kind of factors, that's not good work.

Obviously I have no gripes with the original ports because they don't have FPS options. But the ones that do (PC versions of both of the games I mentioned) should be tested and fixed for those things. To be honest, they should be going out of their way intentionally to find and fix those things. I still never got around to playing Evil Within, and the thing that is holding me back is exactly that, I don't want to play anything in 30fps anymore, but 60 is borked.

I've moved onto Uncharted Thieves Collection anyway so whatever I guess. [/quote]

I definitely agree too. But you know, it's common (old) design patterns. Games are often designed first for consoles and then ported. Not long ago, consoles were only 30 (or less) fps. As there is a target FPS, things are "optimized" accordingly.

It's a lot of work and money to change that. You see how 60fps mode is highlighted (sometimes it's even inadvisable) in ports Not sure Capcom will change this before a whole new game engine.

[Rocket]

Nguyên văn bởi KuroTenshi:

I definitely agree too. But you know, it's common (old) design patterns. Games are often designed first for consoles and then ported. Not long ago, consoles were only 30 (or less) fps. As there is a target FPS, things are "optimized" accordingly.

It's a lot of work and money to change that. You see how 60fps mode is highlighted (sometimes it's even inadvisable) in ports Not sure Capcom will change this before a whole new game engine.

The way I see it, if it's too hard to redesign a game around 60fps, they have 2 options:
1. Make an option to skip framerate issue sections
2. Tell you exactly where you should reduce it, maybe after you die.

Not ideal but better than having the player be confused.

[[ ] T]

Nguyên văn bởi RocketJump:

Nguyên văn bởi KuroTenshi:

I definitely agree too. But you know, it's common (old) design patterns. Games are often designed first for consoles and then ported. Not long ago, consoles were only 30 (or less) fps. As there is a target FPS, things are "optimized" accordingly.

It's a lot of work and money to change that. You see how 60fps mode is highlighted (sometimes it's even inadvisable) in ports Not sure Capcom will change this before a whole new game engine.

The way I see it, if it's too hard to redesign a game around 60fps, they have 2 options:
1. Make an option to skip framerate issue sections
2. Tell you exactly where you should reduce it, maybe after you die.

Not ideal but better than having the player be confused.

The thing is, setting your FPS to 30 allows you to go A-B
With variable FPS, you might have to go A-_-B
It saves a few seconds of your run, which is why speedrunners do it.

[Persona Au Gratin]

Nguyên văn bởi ggAkatsukiP:

Nguyên văn bởi Persona Au Gratin:

It's not "gaming language" that's your hang up here, you don't know what an antecedent is. In that regard, I'm not going to help you.

So I'm lefted here to never understand your message?
:/

I was contrasting my experience with yours, we had different outcomes where you said your tactics dropped ammo instead of money and all that I wrote in that original post was saying "I kind of agree with you, but at the same time I've seen way different experiences and experienced different myself." I've still had to reload a few times if I had a safety save if the game wasn't playing ball with drops.

It was rude, in my eyes, to refer to what I was doing as "gaming language", it's literally about whether ammo or money dropped is all. For you, ammo dropped, for myself... I've had the same outcomes you did, but also had runs where I'm running for my life with no ammo just chasing doors/puzzle solutions. Forget about it then. Don't do that false modest crap, I think, if you didn't understand just say so. Calling yourself a "peasant" like that's how I see you is something I take issue with. I'm not going to assume someone is stupid just from how I talk.

Oddly enough, I found that the game was more enjoyable flying by the seat of my pants but the game definitely will force you to fight things and, all bets are off in certain areas. At least from what I've seen it's always been things like escorting Ashley, good luck if your rifle ammo is low for instance. My point compared to yours is I've seen a decent chunk of people just not get the "thing" they needed. Sometimes it had to do with what might be poor build choices or weapon choices, sometimes they were fighting too much in areas where the exit was nearby.

Accounting for player skill, I think this isn't a huge problem but an annoying one where the game is just kind of weird in how it isn't uniform in certain ways. Or it seems that way, anyway. The main thing with those areas is that the game is just as likely NOT to help you out on drops or not to give you the thing you need. It just depends on what the table dictates.

[Platapoop]

I've played the game on 60 and 120. There is no way a casual player is going to notice any difference. Besides Del Lago waves and easier to phase through enemies' hitboxes, all the other differences are pure copium.

[Rocket]

Nguyên văn bởi Platapoop:

I've played the game on 60 and 120. There is no way a casual player is going to notice any difference. Besides Del Lago waves and easier to phase through enemies' hitboxes, all the other differences are pure copium.

So did I but you can't deny the times that speedrunners are changing their fps are legitimately making a difference and me highlighting that to look for others has nothing to do with copium. I wonder if you'd say the same to Distortion2, Spicee, Bawkbasoup, CarcinogenSDA and others. Don't be rude.

[Persona Au Gratin]

Nguyên văn bởi RocketJump:

Nguyên văn bởi Platapoop:

I've played the game on 60 and 120. There is no way a casual player is going to notice any difference. Besides Del Lago waves and easier to phase through enemies' hitboxes, all the other differences are pure copium.

So did I but you can't deny the times that speedrunners are changing their fps are legitimately making a difference and me highlighting that to look for others has nothing to do with copium. I wonder if you'd say the same to Distortion2, Spicee, Bawkbasoup, CarcinogenSDA and others. Don't be rude.

That gamer social practice, and it is a gamer thing, of just trying to be too cool for a solution or a position is so extremely annoying. I've already mentioned a opposite position about whether speed running design always benefits me, but it is undeniably a useful source of information, albeit with potentially different interests or purpose. The common ground is understanding the game more thoroughly and some person just waltzes in like "Git gud" or "Cope." The language alone just signals like you're talking to someone who has no business being in the conversation.

[Platapoop]

Nguyên văn bởi RocketJump:

Nguyên văn bởi Platapoop:

I've played the game on 60 and 120. There is no way a casual player is going to notice any difference. Besides Del Lago waves and easier to phase through enemies' hitboxes, all the other differences are pure copium.

So did I but you can't deny the times that speedrunners are changing their fps are legitimately making a difference and me highlighting that to look for others has nothing to do with copium. I wonder if you'd say the same to Distortion2, Spicee, Bawkbasoup, CarcinogenSDA and others. Don't be rude.

They are allowed to lower fps for the ENTIRE village section. But they only do it for 5 seconds? Why? to run through enemies. If there were an advantage, then they would do it for the entire village section. But they don't. I wonder why. Nor do they believe about the grenade pause buffering. Bawk, spicee, and dist2 have all said it's pure copium.

[Rocket]

Nguyên văn bởi Persona Au Gratin:

Nguyên văn bởi RocketJump:

So did I but you can't deny the times that speedrunners are changing their fps are legitimately making a difference and me highlighting that to look for others has nothing to do with copium. I wonder if you'd say the same to Distortion2, Spicee, Bawkbasoup, CarcinogenSDA and others. Don't be rude.

That gamer social practice, and it is a gamer thing, of just trying to be too cool for a solution or a position is so extremely annoying. I've already mentioned a opposite position about whether speed running design always benefits me, but it is undeniably a useful source of information, albeit with potentially different interests or purpose. The common ground is understanding the game more thoroughly and some person just waltzes in like "Git gud" or "Cope." The language alone just signals like you're talking to someone who has no business being in the conversation.

I know right?!

Strategies, tips, tricks, guides, and playthroughs generate countless views all over the internet. Some in the millions.

And these idiots come in here with their cope, skill, git gud crap. I can't imagine anyone wants to be friends with jerks like that.

Why are they even on this discussion forum if they're not contributing anything useful to the discussion. I hate when people crap up threads with useless drivel.

"I'm so good and you aren't. Copium. Incel. Git Gud. Skill issue." I wish they'd stfu already and go talk to their pillow or something, because nobody else wants them to open their yap.

[Persona Au Gratin]

Nguyên văn bởi Platapoop:

Nguyên văn bởi RocketJump:

So did I but you can't deny the times that speedrunners are changing their fps are legitimately making a difference and me highlighting that to look for others has nothing to do with copium. I wonder if you'd say the same to Distortion2, Spicee, Bawkbasoup, CarcinogenSDA and others. Don't be rude.

They are allowed to lower fps for the ENTIRE village section. But they only do it for 5 seconds? Why? to run through enemies. If there were an advantage, then they would do it for the entire village section. But they don't. I wonder why. Nor do they believe about the grenade pause buffering. Bawk, spicee, and dist2 have all said it's pure copium.

That's not how the benefit works. The point of changing the frame rate being to deal with a specific pattern or section, to create stability... you're taking a solution and just trying to make it about some weird belief you think people should share with you.

Nguyên văn bởi RocketJump:

Nguyên văn bởi Persona Au Gratin:

That gamer social practice, and it is a gamer thing, of just trying to be too cool for a solution or a position is so extremely annoying. I've already mentioned a opposite position about whether speed running design always benefits me, but it is undeniably a useful source of information, albeit with potentially different interests or purpose. The common ground is understanding the game more thoroughly and some person just waltzes in like "Git gud" or "Cope." The language alone just signals like you're talking to someone who has no business being in the conversation.

I know right?!

Strategies, tips, tricks, guides, and playthroughs generate countless views all over the internet. Some in the millions.

And these idiots come in here with their cope, skill, git gud crap. I can't imagine anyone wants to be friends with jerks like that.

If you just force yourself into enough conversations, I guess... lmfao lord. Like, the gymnastics alone going on. "They don't do it for the whole game though!" Not very smart.

[Rocket]

Nguyên văn bởi Persona Au Gratin:

If you just force yourself into enough conversations, I guess... lmfao lord. Like, the gymnastics alone going on. "They don't do it for the whole game though!" Not very smart.

If they have nothing to contribute they should gtfo of my thread. Nobody asked them for their stupidity. People find tips and tricks out all the time, it's how the ones I highlighted were found in the first place. Testing different things out. These people's attitudes towards others are awful. They're vermin.

[Platapoop]

Nguyên văn bởi Persona Au Gratin:

That's not how the benefit works. The point of changing the frame rate being to deal with a specific pattern or section, to create stability... you're taking a solution and just trying to make it about some weird belief you think people should share with you.

You do know that is to move through people, like I have stated over and over again? It's the same exact thing as RE8. You only see them change FPS to move through people. I'm pretty sure you're not the smart one. You don't even know the reason for them changing frame rate.

[Kuruk]

Nguyên văn bởi RocketJump:

Nguyên văn bởi Persona Au Gratin:

The Cabin fight is one of the more stable areas in the game. I don't think people getting savaged there are being "juked" alone, if you get to certain areas without ammunition the game is going to destroy you. If you try to stand and fight everything in the game, you're going to get mauled in the cabin because the game has a fair chance of not dropping all the ammunition or crafting materials you might need to survive.

I think in terms of patterns it's fine, but I did the Cabin segment on Pro and Hardcore on unlocked framerate on a 4090 and I just sat at the stairwell and headshot things with the bolt action rifle. It was one of the few segments I thought was fun.

My question is actually whether frame rate is tied to enemy spawning. It seems incredibly frenetic, though orienting the camera behind Leon can mitigate this to some degree, the moments where I have to put the camera behind him to interact with something seem the most perilous.

A big issue I have with context actions is that in many cases the game will spite you unless you're in proximity to the thing, standing completely still or looking right at the damn thing.

Just chiming in since I think the Framerate assumption alone isn't telling the whole story. But I still think it'd be good to know.

Honestly, the frame rate exploit saved RE2 Remake in my eyes, just being able to knife stuff to death made the moment to moment gameplay feel very "old school Resident Evil" to me lmfao.

It'd be nice if they would decouple enemy behavior and Leon's actions away from framerate. Or at least factor in QTE's and such. 2 games come to mind where you're better off playing at 30fps than 60fps, RE4 OG and The Evil Within. It's pretty aggravating that game testers don't test for these things, or that devs don't implement the fixes. I shouldn't have to watch speedrunners play a game before I play the game to find out whether I'm going to die or not from a QTE (Salazar statue) or enemy (Sadist catches up to you before you jump over the gurney or whatever its called. I know they're doable if you make adjustments but I shouldn't have to be puzzled about this stuff in the first place. Things are a little better now than they used to be but obviously it's still an issue if people are changing framerate or pausing the game to have an advantage.

Also I found this on Reddit:
There was on part on Akumu I had to drop down to 30 fps. Early in Chapter 11 there's a part where you grab a key and run back to the door with a machine gun haunted in the distance. For some reason on 60fps the dude does not miss or have any downtime in firing. Plus this part is like 3-4 minutes after a checkpoint so I dropped the FPS and got it next try.

with the qte part specifically, yakuza has an issue with that in some of their recent games. Yakuza kiwami and kiwami 2 have an issue where getting grabbed while playing at 60 fps halves the amount of time you have to mash the button to get out. and it gets shorter and shorter the higher the fps. so its still a common issue even with modern ps4/xbox one and onward games