disappointed in multiplayer

[Nomad]

Well bah. I thought this game was going to make for decent semi realistic multiplayer. Then tonight I repeatedly saw people with akimbo pistols get better accuracy at medium range than I could with an assault rifle. The game is completely broken, with shotguns that have effective ranges measured in inches and smgs that are more accurate at range than assault rifles and so make the rifles pointless.

Add to that seemingly rampant cheating, and gratuitous noobycapping, where when you start out you're facing off against far superior weapons that you can't have and.. it's just another game that I'm only going to want to play with people I can trust not to abuse the gratuitous balance problems.

Oh well, to be fair it's still far better than I expected from Rockstar. If they were to fix the glaring balance problems then there's the core of what could be a very decent MP game here.

[<TK> GandalfTheThicc]

I have been playing the multiplayer today with friends, and came on here to say the exact same thing. the dual weilding pistols is pathetic.

[Noblesavage]

And yet despite your grievances the number of kills for 2-hand weapons (assault rifles, snipers, shotguns, etc.) far outnumbers pistols according to the Social Club statistics.

I'd suggest sticking with a weapon and leveling it up until at least level 5 or higher, that's where the guns become far more lethal. The AK is one of the better 2-h guns early on.

If you'd rather try 1-handers I'd go for PT92 with the M1911, until you can duel-wield the PT92.

Later, you can duel-wield the 608 Bull with the .38 Revolver for some deadly damage.

Aside from weapon choices, it also boils down to how you play. If you're DW two 1-h's and expect to hit the guy half-way across the map you won't survive long. Stick to buildings and skirt the map with your duelies. Keep your character LIGHT! You DO NOT need a bullet proof vest and items if you're duel-wielding. If you're using a 2-h, pick a spot where you can see a large chunk of the map without exposing yourself too much and take pot shots at guys running by.

As for cheaters, I haven't seen one in 3 months since they started cracking down harder on hackers. Does that mean they don't exist? Nope, I'm just sharing my experience for use as a data point.

[Nomad]

Umm.. no. I was using a FAL, trying to shoot at people at medium range and when they were using akimbo pistols they were getting better accuracy than me and were able to kill me far faster. Stationary targets where I can take the time to aim for a headshot still take at least two slow bursts, usually three. In that time an akimbo player has had time to kill me twice over. Dual pistols were getting tighter accuracy and doing more DPS than an assault rifle. That's broken. For that matter they were out damaging what's supposed to be a full auto shotgun at any range greater than about 6 inches. That's flamingly broken.

And thank you but no, exploiting the broken akimbo system isn't really what I'm looking to do.

Again, I get that pistols were intentionally made OP to bias the game towards pistol play. I approve of that, I like that style, but when you combine gratuitously OP pistols with the ability to dual wield them with basically no loss of accuracy and the ability to fire them as fast as a machine gun, again with no loss of accuracy, that's a problem. Yeah, it gets a little unamusing listening to two pistols fire faster than an automatic assault rifle in bullet time. At this point I'm willing to say that you shouldn't be able to dual wield anything unless they resolve this. Not that I expect them to do anything about it, but in my opinion from what I've seen so far akimbo is breaking MP gameplay.

[Noblesavage]

Your arguement is a fair one and one I agree with on the whole. However, what I don't understand is how venting on the Steam discussion forums somehow alleviates or fixes the situation. You would think that a better outlet for constructive criticism, such as the kind that you brought up, would be better directed at Rockstar's Twitter account or something more official.

Secondly, it doesn't seem like Rockstar has any further intention of balancing the game as far as multiplayer mechanics go. I could be wrong with such a statement.

Thirdly, I agree that the shotguns in this game are worthless and could use some work, and ditto for SMG's. But a simple workaround this fact is this - don't buy or use them. It limits the gameplay experience but saves you frustration in the long run.

Lastly, I found the FAL to be an inferior 2-h weapon, despite what the weapon stats indicate. I tried very hard trying to figure out how to make better use of it but to no avail. Again, I'd recommend the AK or, if you have the level and cash, a G6 or MD-97 LC (and further still, if you have the DLC, the M4). Keep your targets further than medium range if that's what's causing you grief.

[Noblesavage]

Also, which shotguns are you talking about specifically? Looking at the Rockstar statistics shows that 2 of the top 5 guns that deal the most damage in shootdodge are shotguns, with the number one gun being the M4 Super 90 (a shotgun).

What I would like to see, and unfortunately Rockstar doesn't show yet, is which of the 2-hand weapons (that are currently getting OVER TRIPLE the kills duel-wield weapons are) are netting the most kills. I wouldn't be surprised if it was only a select few types of 2-h guns that are getting the most kills.

[Noblesavage]

You might get heard better here, instead of having to debate with my cantankerous ass: https://twitter.com/RockstarGames

[boone]

I have to completely agree with you its inherently inbalanced. Who playtests their game because I caught this quite quickly. The dual wield pistols are easily the most powerful combo in the game, coupled w/ rediculous perks and the fact that you can maintain a light kit and have unlimited staminia. Whats the downside? Not to mention the spawn point placement that leaves me confused 70% of the time, a matchmaking and balancing system that almost ALWAYS pairs higher levels together and... well... p2p. Its a warcrime to use p2p in favor of dedicated servers in ANY shooter and the lazy way out. p2p networking is a good tell that the developer has no intention of further support or care for their customers.

The multiplayer in this game is right on the cusp of being fantastic! I've had a few great matches where people don't use akimbo/explosives/OP perks. Unfortunately I've had way more matches where people were using all of those exclusively.

I've been deciding if posting a full on multiplayer review on rockstar forums/steam forums would generate any response other than fanboys/RPGers/akimbos/lvl50s telling me off. Thanks for starting this discussion because its exactly how I feel. Everytime I log in, after 2 matches i'm fed up with the unbalance and frustrated.

<3

[H_84]

at least you guys can get into MP

[Suhbombastic]

Lol half the time I get killed instantly on the finger/fingertips by that one-shot sniper.

[Nomad]

For reference, the M4 Super 90 was the shotgun I was talking about. I wanted to play with shotguns because they're often the most fun way to play an online shooter. I'm used to shotguns being ridiculously range limited in first person shooters, I use them despite their being traditionally gimped. But in this game it's just stupid. I get one shot kills if I'm almost touching the person. I stated that it's effective range was measured in inches for a reason. Any farther than that and it takes two to three shots every time (headshots be damned), but it fires so slowly that most weapons have enough time to kill me before I get that second shot in. And if I'm any farther than maybe ten feet away forget it. I can chip away from their health to help a teammate kill them, but it simply takes too long to kill them, if they're at all competant they have more then enough opportunity to kill me. Yes, Rockstar says that the Super 90 does the most shootdodge damage, but I've done exactly.. let me check.. yes, zero damage in shoot dodge with it. Somehow I always end up firing the gun in some direction I'm not looking in shootdodge, to the point that I've fully given up on it. But let's not get into the also broken bullet time mechanics. I've learned my lesson, better to not use it then to try to leap over a railing and instead bounce off of it and end up flailing around helplessly, unable to even aim your gun.

So I now know that the shotguns are a joke and I could bypass them, but damnit.. that should be a big part of this game. It's max freaking payne for crying out loud, the game should not be coddling the semi auto sniper rifle players (really, a semi auto sniper rifle firing the same bullet as the FAL can get a kill with two hits to the hands, meanwhile the FAL has to empty 4 bullets into someone's chest to kill them?) and hamstringing anyone who wants to get close with a shotgun. Maybe I should check out the m500, my stats say I've had a better KDR with it than the Super 90. But it's also possible that I used it less in a better environment, which is to say not with a bunch of akimbo exploiters, and ended up with somewhat biased stats that don't reflect it's real performance.

As to the social club provided stats, yep, I've been killed the most with the pt92. I'd wager that if the club stated whether those were akimbo or single a vast majority would be akimbo as well. Maybe the majority of players aren't abusing this as much as this, but in the games I've played more often then not I end up with someone on the opposite team running around with a gun in each hand, shooting magic laser bullets that I have nothing equal to since I refuse to exploit that broken mechanic. I'm not saying my teammates don't do it, just that it's not obvious to me that they are if they're not shooting me with them. And of course they're scoring the highest of their team. All I can really do is shoot them in the back, because if we see each other at the same time and start firing at the same time, they win every time. The numbers of the game make that an unavoidable conclusion. So far the LMG .30 is about the only thing I've encountered that comes near to that level of magic gun factor, with a combination of laser like accuracy and super high damage.

And as to why I'm posting this here. Simple. If I had known about these mechanics before I purchased it I would certainly have thought twice before getting it. Well now I'm stuck with this turkey (that admittedly comes frustratingly close to being really fun), but I can at least put this out there as a warning. Of course Rockstar wouldn't give a damn about what anyone says, it's why I initially stayed away from this game. I didn't want to see them ruin a classic franchise, they left me with no confidence in them after what they did to GTA4. But I looked at the discussion group and saw copious praise for the MP game with no hint of the glaring flaws in their balancing job. Again, it's close. Agonizingly close. If I play with people that don't abuse the OP weapons the game can be really fun, I've had entire matches that I thoroughly enjoyed. But since the game relies on a lobby mechanic that forces me into games with people with no choice on who I want to play with (one of the two many ways they've aped Modern Warfare) I'm stuck getting whatever teammates and opponents it decides to force on me, so if people want to abuse OP factors in the game, and of course they will, I'm stuck dealing with them more often than not.

I'm not inclined to try out the AK, I'm kind of tired of seeing this gun given unrealistically superior stats in games just because it's popular with gun nuts. But there's a lot of other options out there, so if the FAL is really gimped and not indicative of the assault rifle category as a whole then I guess I can try out some of the others.

The listed stats are definitely broken. I'm looking at the social club listings now, and amusingly the IA2, the IMG 5.56, and the UAR-21 all feature identical stats. And the UAR-21 shows higher damage and lower rate of fire than the FAL.

[Noblesavage]

So, your intentions for the post were as a warning to potential MP3 buyers, fair enough. You may want to state that more directly in either your title or your Original Post.

You bring up some fair points, I just wish you'd pass those same points on to Rockstar. Hell, I'd be willing to join you in voicing those concerns if it would force Rockstar to at least CONSIDER looking at balancing the multiplayer.

I guess what the point of me debating about all this in the first place is to say that I've managed to figure out that to enjoy the multiplayer you have to work the system (by both exploiting it AND finding a nice balance, depending on what loadout I feel like using). Pick and choose weapons that work for you and stick with those because as it stands now Rockstar won't be fixing things anytime soon and you might as well squeeze some enjoyment out of a game you purchased. You could be beligerent and kick up a fuss, or you could swallow your pride and try some other weapons out (aside from akimbo) and maybe, JUST maybe, find some fun.

[Noblesavage]

Also, the weapons you listed at the bottom of your post (IA2, IMG 5.56 and UAR-21) all may have similar/exact stats but I found they all handled and performed differently from one another. Again, I say the FAL is a POS gun in this game. The sustained fire accuracy and damage output does not reflect the stats they list for it.

[Nomad]

So in other words, you don't disagree with anything I've said, but I shouldn't say negative stuff unless I go to great lengths to explain that I'm trying to warn people, and now that I'm stuck with the game I might as well bite the bullet and desperately try to find a way to enjoy the fundamentally broken game.

The problem is the game has gone to great lengths to make this damned near impossible. I've come to recognize the names of certain people who pretty much exclusively exploit the broken akimbo mechanics. But.. what good does it do me? Since I can't pick the server I join I'm stuck being jammed into games with them whether I like it or not. One night a friend and I were stuck playing with what seemed like a bunch of Russian players, with atrocious connectivity that meant that they were warping all over the place. The developers seem to have taken the charming shortcut of giving you no way to tell what a person's ping is to try to cover this problem up, so there's not even any warning until you're shooting at someone and suddenly they're on the other side of you.

No matter what I do, this game will be smacking me in the face with this. I still sometimes get one or two fun games in, then the akimbo exploiters show up and fun time is over. This is all this game is ever going to be. I'll have to grit my teeth and bear dealing with people like that, for days, just to level my weapons to the point that maybe they're useful. Of course I did that with the FAL only to learn that the gun is a worthless lemon. So apparently I get to spend days trying to level a weapon just to find out if it's any good.

This is not fun, this is relentlessly frustrating. My pride doesn't have a damned thing to do with it, unless you honestly think refusing to exploit broken, OP game mechanics is a character defect. I consider it good sportsmanship, but you're welcome to call it what you wish I suppose. Rockstar doesn't give a damn, there's no way to get in touch with them, so my only option is to send up a warning to any other hapless gamers about to fall into the trap. If someone else had allowed me the same warning I wouldn't be in this position. The game has poor play balancing that make some weapons gratuitously overpowered and some basically worthless, heavy noobycapping that means that you start out at a distinct disadvantage against people who are also more experienced, and a modern warfare style lobby system that gives you no choice where you end up and means you play with the people they want you to play with, no matter what.

There are a few positive points, and I'm willing to say them. For a start, at least they avoided the temptation to put claymore mines in it. I'm actually surprised that they avoided aping modern warfare in that one way. Secondly they seem to have managed to make the RPG not OP. I'm actually surprised when someone kills me with it, mostly it's kind of a wacky distraction. These are common pitfalls of modern FPS style games and they managed to avoid them, which is why it's so grating to see the rest of the game fall short when they've shown that they're capable of better. And if you're playing with people that are playing the game to have fun, rather than to rack up the highest score possible, it's actually quite a fun game. The problem is getting to that fun place is simply luck of the draw, and getting two fun rounds in one night is a major accomplishment in this game. Mostly the experience of playing this game is more like yelling at the screen, trying to figure out why the person you were shooting at suddenly stopped taking damage from you when their health bar was just about to hit zero, and while your bullets continued to hit them they took no more damage and leisurely killed you. It's pumping half a clip of 7.62mm rounds into someone and watching them survive, then dying from a pair of the same bullets in your hands from a gun that does literally more than twice the damage with the same rounds. And, yes, it's laser bullet spewing akimbo pistols that fire as fast as an smg only with better accuracy.

The thing I don't get is why you feel the need to continue to disagree, while constantly trying to say that you don't actually disagree. We know what I'm doing here, what are you doing here? You seem to not want to see these points brought up even if you don't really disagree with them. I appreciate the advice that the FAL was a lemon, despite being intimately familiar with their poor job balancing akimbo pistols I would never have thought that they'd make a rifle so pointless and inferior to the alternatives, so I kept trying to level it to see if it stopped sucking. But beyond that, what's your point here?

[Noblesavage]

Sorry, I had no intention of agitating you and my apologies if I did. There is no "in other words," I never said you shouldn't say anything negative. I actually said the opposite. What I said was that you should take the points you've mentioned and direct them at more official channels in hopes of inacting actual positive change. I only wanted to help a fellow gamer see another point of view in the hopes that they could salvage something from the wreckage. Obviously you feel strongly enough about this that you aren't willing to debate, argue or even discuss this without becoming incredibly agitated so I'll leave. Good day to you.

[Barre]

people have to realise that MP3 is a singleplayer game, the MP part is just for marketing and sales and is not meant to be taken seriously. If you want a multiplayer game go play Battlefield, if you want a great singleplayer story, play MP3, simple.