I refuse to play this

[Socinus]

Alright, before I go into it I want to give some background information so it's clear I'm not talking completely out my ass.

I've played shooters and milsim games for many, many years. Almost my first game ever was Doom II. I have no objection to violence in videogames, I think it's a manufactured controversy, and I have no objections whatsoever to the military being depicted in games. And yes, I have played the game.

That said, I have real problems with AA on an ethical level. It stems from the fact that this game is made BY the United States Army. It is essentially a recruiting tool and meant to give a positive image of the armed forces, that much has been more or less admitted by people involved with the game. Even if that wasn't the case, there are many people (some of whom you can read testimony from on this forum) who enlisted in the military as a partial result of the game's encouragement. There is a giant link to the Army's website right on the AA3 homepage.

It is, at best, an advergame. And while I roll my eyes at game published by Coke or Burger King, this is a game meant to sell the experience of war to people who are often too young to enlist. The fact that this game is published BY the Army lends credence to it as a "true" simulation of the Army "experience" in a way that something by Ubisoft or Activision doesn't.

Additionally, AA3 is another step in the trend of normalizing the integration of the military with our daily lives. We already have highly militarized police and I don't like to see the actual military creeping into our lives even more.

It sanitizes the experience of war, it dehumanizes the people on the other end of the rifle, it glosses over the experiences of many veterans, it deifies people who may have done pretty horrific things, and it creates a comfort with the military that people really should not have.

The military should not be producing, in effect, propaganda for use in recruiting. That's an extremely unsettling step and it somewhat puzzles me that people are alright with this.

To be clear, my objection is not to military themed games or milsim games in general. Had this been published by anyone else, I'd have duly ignored it. But the fact that it is published by the Armed Forces and distributed for free to anyone coupled with statements and obvious gestures that peg this game as a recruitment tool set it apart from other games in the genre in that its main job is to recruit rather than entertain or make money.

We're very quick to be morally outraged with Hamas uses Mickey Mouse to push ideas of militant Islam but I don't see that this is functionally that much different.

Just some things to think about.

Take care.

[Mr.Psyker]

Messaggio originale di ^UG^_Reemus:

It took you from 1.5 Americas Army to AA4 ( which you keep mentioning AA3 for some reason) to spew this. The ENTIRE world uses systems for 'recruitment' 'loyalty' Using games, pictures, sports, music to lure people to products and services. The WHOLE DAMN WORLD does it DAILY. Im a pepper wouldn't you like to be a pepper too....You're a hair overboard man. Why don't you chase cigarette people, they kill more than war does every year...hmmf . Yes the game is made and put out there by the U.S. Military ...and people from all over the world play it but people from all over the world do not join the U.S. Military, nor do they flock to their local armed forces base to join. At AA peak if memory serves me right there was over 17 million players...The USA certainly didnt even get 25000 of those joining from the game. While you have GTA allegedly teaching that blasting people inthe face and stealing their car is cool youre going off on this? hmmf again..WAY too much time on your hands. Join Congress if you start now you might get in ( Doom II means youre still pretty young) and you can lobby to kill one out of thousands of games depicting much worse than TEAMWORK, Commraderie and a sense of worth.

they turn most recruits down.... they do have people lined up out the door to join. they just got out of highschool. If you think your commanding officer gives a damn about you think how you feel when you look at that dumb pvt. The one you get to tell what to do thats younger then you.
you may be older but that doesnt mean ♥♥♥♥. You dont know ♥♥♥♥ and your just another used car salesmen fook your rank and your age you coward who goes with the rest.

[Socinus]

Messaggio originale di synapt:

For what it's worth, the only time I've ever seen it 'stated' that it was a recruitment tool was not by the Army, but by Chris Chambers, a former director of the game back in the day, beyond that I've actually not ever seen any official recognition that it's a recruitment tool.

I'm not saying it can't be viewed as one, I understand why people can, but some of us don't really believe that was it's intention at all, like I said, looking at their historical data for recruitment stats kinda imply this much too, you'd think if it were just a recruitment tool, they would have stopped long ago when they were still only pulling the same usual recruitment goals.

Efficacy is not the issue here, it's the intent.

The creator of the game, Lt. Col. Casey Wardynski, stated that the game was to attract younger, more tech savvy recruits. He also cleared up the entertainment debate with a direct statement, "We don't want to use violence as an entertainment vehicle''
http://www.nytimes.com/2002/07/11/technology/uncle-sam-wants-you-to-play-this-game.html

Testimony has been given by the Army to the Senate Armed Services Committee to the effect that AA is part of an overall push to get new recruits.
http://www.thenation.com/article/americas-army-targets-youth#axzz2dZN4y0j4

Despite the declarations of a game influencing anyone's thought process being ludicrous, it seems to be working.
http://gamepolitics.com/2009/11/17/america%E2%80%99s-army-extremely-effective-recruitment-tool

More commentary from Lt. Col. Wardynski about wanting to make people who played the game to "feel like they've already been there."
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/05/26/AR2005052601505.html

AA also manifests in "Army Experience Centers" which have sprung up in recent years to give you more of a taste of "real" Army life from the comfort of your nearest shopping mall.
http://www.army.mil/article/12072/army-experience-center-opens-in-philadelphia/

Messaggio originale di SapperSk/unk:

If anyone believes that this is a good representation of the US Army, then they are remedial and deserve to be shot.

Is it true?

Messaggio originale di ^UG^_Reemus:

The ENTIRE world uses systems for 'recruitment' 'loyalty' Using games, pictures, sports, music to lure people to products and services. The WHOLE DAMN WORLD does it DAILY.

So that means we should tolerate it?

[Mr.Psyker]

Messaggio originale di DirgeInferno1220:

You are an idiot. First of all, it is a GAME. It is a form of entertainment and there is not a single ethical issue in this game. Second of all, I am in the Army. I happen to know that the Army is overstrengthed by over 30%. They are trying to get rid of people. The army is recruiting very few people so they do not need this game for a recruiting tool. Also, any person who enlists because of a video game needs to be shot in the head. I joined because I have a drive to help people and to do my part for the country and my community. If a person joins because of a video game they also probably will not make it out of basic training and AIT because they do not have the right frame of mind. But whatever, I could reply to your ignorant post all day if I wanted to, but I won't.

are you going to have the drive to help me and do your part for your country and your community. Can you shoot me in he head soldier! I made it threw BCT AIT and beyond. you would shoot your own mother in the head if you were ordered to with your "right frame of mind"
that ♥♥♥♥ you do isn't hard its brain dead stupid. you are a sheep who thinks hes a wolf. how have you helped anybody but yourself since you have been in. 1-800-SPY tell them I was mean to you.

[Faolchu]

Messaggio originale di Pixel Popper:

Former Marine here and I agree the Army shouldn't be making games using tax payers dollars. If this is truly a recruitment tool then yes it is wrong. If someone joins the Army because of this game then i say your a fool for joining over a game. As a gamer i will download it and play it for the milsim experiance.

This, also was in the army ten years ago in my country but that was a rational decision not based on pew pew games or movies. I only fear for the kids (6-12 year) playing CoD and this and other military gung ho games and get influenced by it by having a distorted vision of active combat. War is a nasty thing, even peacekeeping missions are nasty on a psychological level and is not something you learn from a game. People who think they do need treatment and not enlistment.

I enjoyed my time helping people as medical aid, no matter their religion, beliefs or anything else. People like Wipenit who think everybody in the army wants to be a terminator also need psychological help. They also need to learn how to express themselves properly online without being a douchebag.

At least most people who enlist try to do something good instead of living like a sheep, go to work, pay taxes, play games, be a douchebag online, retire with most regrets of life and in the end try to make it to the bathroom in time in a nursing home = Wipenit at old age.

[α PIRATEorNINJA Ω]

this isnt the first game in this series, did you make the same threads when the other games came out years and years ago?

and there are probaly way more people joining the army cause of call of doody and Battlefield than this game. even if they arent made to recruiting tools they are still flashy attractive things that blur the minds of what reality really is untill little jimmy is in a trench thinking "wtf have i done"

[no maidens?]

OP is so butthurt. :)

[Kreios]

Soc,
The amount of people recruited by this game in any iteration is small at best compared to the full numbers. Also, as few others have posted here anyone that runs to join up because of a video game needs help, and a lot of it. After I got out I worked for gamestop, I cant even count any more the amount of kids who came up after learning I was in and said they wanted to go in and be a sniper ,or X job, cause they were good at it in COD/BF/ETC and not just Americas Army. This game used to show the team work aspect of the military but after AA3 that kind of went out the window.

You're post shows me that you are just about like the 'friends' on my social media feeds that have no clue what the military is actually about or what it does. Yes, we (Myself personally) have done some pretty 'diabolical' things but in those moments it is either you are them, yes this includes when the moments include kids, women, etc. Its crap and rough sometimes for pepole but it happens. If it were not for some of this military situations we would probably be speaking German, or Russian, or <insert X Language here>. Saying that the military are full of jack booted thugs or etc is a huge issue with me. There is a lot of stuff that goes on behind that scenes that needs to STAY behind the scenes.

[α PIRATEorNINJA Ω]

Messaggio originale di CFP:

Soc,
The amount of people recruited by this game in any iteration is small at best compared to the full numbers. Also, as few others have posted here anyone that runs to join up because of a video game needs help, and a lot of it. After I got out I worked for gamestop, I cant even count any more the amount of kids who came up after learning I was in and said they wanted to go in and be a sniper ,or X job, cause they were good at it in COD/BF/ETC and not just Americas Army. This game used to show the team work aspect of the military but after AA3 that kind of went out the window.

You're post shows me that you are just about like the 'friends' on my social media feeds that have no clue what the military is actually about or what it does. Yes, we (Myself personally) have done some pretty 'diabolical' things but in those moments it is either you are them, yes this includes when the moments include kids, women, etc. Its crap and rough sometimes for pepole but it happens. If it were not for some of this military situations we would probably be speaking German, or Russian, or <insert X Language here>. Saying that the military are full of jack booted thugs or etc is a huge issue with me. There is a lot of stuff that goes on behind that scenes that needs to STAY behind the scenes.

this guy..he gets it.

[Quagmire]

Messaggio originale di CFP:

Soc,
The amount of people recruited by this game in any iteration is small at best compared to the full numbers. Also, as few others have posted here anyone that runs to join up because of a video game needs help, and a lot of it. After I got out I worked for gamestop, I cant even count any more the amount of kids who came up after learning I was in and said they wanted to go in and be a sniper ,or X job, cause they were good at it in COD/BF/ETC and not just Americas Army. This game used to show the team work aspect of the military but after AA3 that kind of went out the window.

You're post shows me that you are just about like the 'friends' on my social media feeds that have no clue what the military is actually about or what it does. Yes, we (Myself personally) have done some pretty 'diabolical' things but in those moments it is either you are them, yes this includes when the moments include kids, women, etc. Its crap and rough sometimes for pepole but it happens. If it were not for some of this military situations we would probably be speaking German, or Russian, or <insert X Language here>. Saying that the military are full of jack booted thugs or etc is a huge issue with me. There is a lot of stuff that goes on behind that scenes that needs to STAY behind the scenes.

I think the issue though isn't is the military nescessary... ( which it absolutely is for EVERY sovereign nation to establish themselves and uphold their ideals ) But that it is rather, is this something YOU as a citizen can stand back and say "yes I am happy that the tax I paid today went to create this video game. It was a WORTHWHILE investment of my money for the RIGHT purposes and a necessary investment.

I like the new AA, I play the new AA, and will continue to play it until it becomes obsolete as far as I see down the road... that said I think your guy's army could have done something far more productive with the funds to actually help the soldiers it has, instead of trying to influence or add to the influence of attracting children and young teens who are still impressionable.

[α PIRATEorNINJA Ω]

lets be real here. the goverment is wasting WAY MORE money on other things that bear NO fruit whatsoever. at least this is something that is being used for something. just the other day i saw a story about how govt had spent something like 2 or 20 million not sure which on a bunch of equipment for networking. some large routers that were like 20,000 each...but they bought the wrong model so they have been sitting in a warehouse for a year collecting dust. this is hardware that they could at least resell or send to some schools for educational use. instead they just let it all sit and rot.....and that is just the tip of the iceberg. in comparision i think AA is the least of worries when it comes to govts wasting money

[Socinus]

Messaggio originale di CFP:

You're post shows me that you are just about like the 'friends' on my social media feeds that have no clue what the military is actually about or what it does. Yes, we (Myself personally) have done some pretty 'diabolical' things but in those moments it is either you are them, yes this includes when the moments include kids, women, etc. Its crap and rough sometimes for pepole but it happens. If it were not for some of this military situations we would probably be speaking German, or Russian, or <insert X Language here>. Saying that the military are full of jack booted thugs or etc is a huge issue with me. There is a lot of stuff that goes on behind that scenes that needs to STAY behind the scenes.

I've not said a single thing regarding the actions of individuals within in the military. I have stated that the Army is using underhanded marketing techniques and seems to be trying to normalize their presence in daily life alongside militarized police but I've said nothing regarding soldiers themselves.

[Kreios]

Messaggio originale di Socinus:

I've not said a single thing regarding the actions of individuals within in the military. I have stated that the Army is using underhanded marketing techniques and seems to be trying to normalize their presence in daily life alongside militarized police but I've said nothing regarding soldiers themselves.

The military already sits with you at the table when you eat. That is something a lot of people miss now days. Everyone has searched for a hot word on the internet, congrats you along with 80% of the rest of the world is on a watch list. As for militarized police come on, you seriously have to be kidding me. Have you seen some of the people a lot of these cops have to go up against? Yes, the military plans for any type of situation. Yes, we have been training since, oh I dont know the 20s is the earlist that I personally know of, possibly the beginning of the military as we know it to go up against any threat, that includes ourselves.

As for the game being used as a recruiting tool, come on wake up. Its a Horrible tool. The ability to get the GI Bill brings in more people each year than this game ever will. Only idiots will see this game and go "Gee Golly War Looks Fun!'

I have a ton of people that state on a pretty normal basis that we need to come home. Where I agree we need to focus more on us as a country than everyone else, I always have to ask come home from where? There are multiple places myself, and any other military member that reads this with -or that has ever had- the clearance knows we are at. Should we come home from some of those places that we seroiusly, seriously need to be present at? Same thing goes with the militarized police force. Some of hte crack pots and groups we have here in the states are just as dangerous as the cartels, mob, Vatican, etc. They need to have some of that training and gear. Its not to force us out of our homes, that would be against the constituion and etc. Which would start another civil war with a quickness, in which i seriously hope our current admins arent that dumb. There is very little the normal civs know which is for the better. Do we need to become a military state? No, but we do need the people with the training and gear, to take care of situations that crop up that most people would start riots for.

[Riggertrigger]

Anyone who wants to join the Military because of playing Videogames must be very stupid. Gaming and serving nearly have nothing in common.

[Mr.Psyker]

Messaggio originale di Krusty:

Messaggio originale di Pixel Popper:

Former Marine here and I agree the Army shouldn't be making games using tax payers dollars. If this is truly a recruitment tool then yes it is wrong. If someone joins the Army because of this game then i say your a fool for joining over a game. As a gamer i will download it and play it for the milsim experiance.

This, also was in the army ten years ago in my country but that was a rational decision not based on pew pew games or movies. I only fear for the kids (6-12 year) playing CoD and this and other military gung ho games and get influenced by it by having a distorted vision of active combat. War is a nasty thing, even peacekeeping missions are nasty on a psychological level and is not something you learn from a game. People who think they do need treatment and not enlistment.

I enjoyed my time helping people as medical aid, no matter their religion, beliefs or anything else. People like Wipenit who think everybody in the army wants to be a terminator also need psychological help. They also need to learn how to express themselves properly online without being a douchebag.

At least most people who enlist try to do something good instead of living like a sheep, go to work, pay taxes, play games, be a douchebag online, retire with most regrets of life and in the end try to make it to the bathroom in time in a nursing home = Wipenit at old age.

and you will collect my waste with a kind heart and listen to my problems as my nurse/medical aid. What about those people who think OP should kill himself for thinking deffrently. yeah i sound like a douchebag but you really are no better then me. You think about that. I never said I think everyone in the military is a killer at all. In fact most people never even see combat. But if you are not a terminator when someone wants you dead your a walking corpse. All I think is you need to know that a lot of people who get your nasty peace keeping war missions done are "douchebags" if not your girls snatch wouldnt taste so good. Do you really have any idea what your talking about. You must be a expert to be so bold who are you what do you do that makes you such an authority figure over me

[Mr.Psyker]

its only stupid if it didnt happen to you... yet! damn video games brainwashed my mind Trolalalalala you've been trolled lol. go play the game get off your high horse losers dont thank me thank my recruiter how do such stupid people like me slip threw. Maintain the myth. If your not 15 min early your late!