Let's build a Monk, a Bard, an Assassin, an Arcane Knight, a Swordmaster and a Reaper on VERY HARD

[Pure_Poetry]

The reason why I'm asking suggestions of builds for these classes is because I can't seem to make them as valuable as the others once difficulty rises to VERY HARD.

VERY HARD or above makes dodge much less reliable (due to the +20 acc or more of enemies on that difficulty), especially for melee adventurers, and the +30% or more damage enemy gets makes lower HP classes exposed to the risk of being one-shoted by strong mobs.

Please prove me wrong and teach me how to build them on VERY HARD or above. Here are my feelings so far :
- Why take the risk to meet an enemy in melee when you can kill him 4/5-tiles afar ? ==> So I never take more than 2 melee guys in a team (mostly to "pin" the enemy and block chokepoints)
- Then, if these 2 want to survive, they either have to be able to outmaneuver the enemy (high ini/good mov range to avoid combat) or be able to soak high damage (require heavy armor) => Knight, def, pal & arcane knight are OK.
- Ultimately, recruits tend to be better if they are very good in a couple of stats, and it is hard to level-up hybrid classes as they usually need more than 2 high attributes to be relevant (arcane knight falls behind a little, paladin still being OK imho, especially for auras).

Thanks for your tips/builds !

[Nitroglycerine]

I think you mostly hit it on the nail.
Melee classes are there to simply tank and protect your long range DPS (mages and archers).

So it's mostly about endurance, physical resist and elemental resist.
In that sense, Monks are surprisingly good.

Guardians have 25% + whatever resistance your armor offers (usually 30%+ for a total of 55%+)
Monks have 25% + 10% (as long as SP is above 50%), so it is definitely less at only 35%. However, they have superior stat growth (A/B/C/B/B/B vs B/C/D/A/D/B), as well as 25% elemental resist.

So I usually give my monks 2x physical resistance accessories, and it is ideal if they have the Magically deaf perk to give them a total of 75% elemental resistance.

I don't use any of the other classes you mentioned at higher difficulty levels, for the very reasons you stated.

[Pure_Poetry]

FYI Just beware the resistances you mention aren't in "%", they follow the rule "X/(X+50)" % so 100 res brings 66.7% dmg resistance.

I agree that monk can be OK but I still rank them behind knights/pal/def. Their stats growth are fine but ultimately, tit is spread everywhere and not where it matters only. Plus they lack an item slot which lategame would bring a lot to the table. True damage is nice though.

[Evalle]

Bard still can be viable. He can stay in the safe corner and chain sing his songs. And with bard leader group perk, those songs gonna be insanely powerfull. Like +40 bp on your characters, +50hp heal all with infinite range, +30% damage all. Add there +2 roll checks. Frankly, i see bard (songs) and paladin (auras+item auras) as a mandatory characters for any solid group.

[bz_siege_01]

I tried the tank route, but the Guardians do disappointing damage, IMO. On my recent playthrough, I got two decent knights who do an ok job tanking but they put out way better damage. The monk however... like D&D and many other games, the monk can be good with a very very particular build, (multiclassing, gear) and it still isn't good in every scenario. However, in some games, the properly built monk flies around the room dealing decent damage and avoiding damn near everything. In this game, I couldn't get the monk to that level and I stopped trying. I got pretty excited about the swordmaster, but even with the damage output close to a knight, he was too squishy. End game monsters and bosses hammer him down to where I need my healer to practically follow him around. It would be nice if there was a scenario generator where you could pick whatever gear you like, stat a character, pick some enemies and see the results.

[Pure_Poetry]

I agree on Guardian. They shine early game but they tend to fall behind when other frontliners reach 90% of their tankiness (due to Uber-equipment) but get 170% of their damage output.

I'll take a look at bards with your idea in mind @Evalle. How do you spec yours precisely ?

[Pure_Poetry]

Regarding bards, in addition to songs buffs, I'm torn between making him/her having high WP and thus turning him as a 2nd caster to my party (since bards use WP for MAB), or focusing more on dex/str and put him as a 2nd archer. Any feedback ?

[Evalle]

Yes, there's potential to make your bard subcaster, especially lightning one, due to storm leather armor. And i went exactly that route. But got disappointed with the result, when i compared my primary lightning mage with bard. 36-50 lightning damage on bard with +lightning gear (46 wp stat, and magically talented trait isnt that bad imho) vs 123-166 on my mage... So i end up with pure support bard. As a build, i took everything in bard training area, few adventurer training utilities skills (move, +sp, armor for ini) and support magic, to throw haste and shields if needed. I'm missing, but recommend to have born leader on your bard, because you need him as a leader for Teamwork: Groupies skill. He's equipped for ini (to have highest ini in team). I took nothing in his scoundrel and bow training areas.

[Pure_Poetry]

Yeah I came to the same build idea as yours. I am amazed though by the dmg output difference between your bard and mage.

Regarding traits, I came to the conclusion that "Brave" and "Born Leader" were mandatory, and that "Pretty" (+35% BP gains) or "Kind" (courage + heal) or "Rational" were close behind.
I'm torn with "Pacifist" as well. +1 turn duration for buffs may be nice but BP loss on dmg done may be too punishing (unless really focused on 90%+ support)

[Lanrutcon]

To be fair, comparing anyone to a Lightning High Mage is kind of silly at this point. They are so stupidly powerful I'm training a second one. Chain Lightning with +115% potency hitting 4 targets, extra penetration and -cost? And you can go into any mission with a rainstorm and hit even harder.

[Pure_Poetry]

Actually you can still get those buffs on the bard if I'm correct. Titles can be applied as well, and medium armor Lightning buffs are comparable to the "Avatar of Storms" robe. It is just that "INT <=> WP", hence the fact that I was surprised.

[Decay]

Escrito originalmente por Evalle:

Bard still can be viable. He can stay in the safe corner and chain sing his songs. And with bard leader group perk, those songs gonna be insanely powerfull. Like +40 bp on your characters, +50hp heal all with infinite range, +30% damage all. Add there +2 roll checks. Frankly, i see bard (songs) and paladin (auras+item auras) as a mandatory characters for any solid group.

Seconding this. Lot of people seem to be sleeping on bards and paladins. The biggest problem with bard is that the song rotation doesn't leave it much else to do: the archer and mage skills just aren't useful in comparison to songs, except maybe for haste and shadowstep for emergencies. The paladin can be a bit squishy for a front-liner, but that's less of a problem once you realize that damage reflection procs life leech abilities.

[Pure_Poetry]

Thanks to your suggestions, I'm working on a A-team on my Above Very hard ironman playthrough with the following composition :
- Paladin (Elan)
- Dragon Knight
- Beastmaster (not Daryl)
- Witch (probably not Alicia, will see how rolls go)
- Saint
- And a bard support/caster leader with "Born leader" and high WP if possible (and low STR)

Still can't work my head around other classes (Swordmaster, Reaper, etc...) at that difficulty settings. Maybe I'll reconsider going forward depending on your insights. Thanks.

[Decay]

Swordmaster and Reaper are underwhelming in general. I'd prefer if SM had access to sword & shield training rather than battle tactics. Reaper doesn't really offer anything that can't be achieved on assassin with items.

[Zeks]

Note: just finished witch quest, haven't seen past that yet. Some of these are a bit overleveled due to me preparing secondary teams and needing a key figure to round out the secondary parties

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3230894368
Underwhelming damage? Sure. Still she survived witch's barrage on +60% damage and can pretty much shut down any sus fight she encounters by tying enemies for a while.

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3230894725
With an SP pool like that he can be permastealthed while dishing out whatever. Only enemies with true sight are a problem and he can teleport to get away from those.

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3230894826
This is still a "build in progress" thing, with a dodge stance and dodge buff from the bard I don't think that even +20% acc on enemies matters much. She still evades most of them. Not that her damage is anything truly spectacular so no idea how useful she is truly.

Can't commend on reaper and arcane knight, yet.

[LilyanaKabal]

Guardian's whole thing is surviving ♥♥♥♥. Anyone complaining about the damage is missing the point entirely. They are the "You're going nowhere. I got you for three minutes!" guy