What a awful choice for leader of Argentina, Eva Peron really ? specially when the games its called "history untold" welp lets talk about the real history of Eva then

[Reaper]

first of all im Argentinian and i find very odd the choice of leader of Argentina when we have a lot of more important historical figures on our history that are far less known by the exterior, yet they choose Eva Peron the only one that has a international movie. well lets talk about her real history then (also she its really recent history for us, literally i have alive member of my family that live thought her time period)

Eva Peron its know on the exterior because of that movie of "evita" with Madonna and also there is a broadway musical of Eva peron. but that movie and musical dont show who really was Eva Peron

People belive she is a important figure of Feminism for the world and specially Argentina, the reality? she hated feminism And she took credit for many of the feminism fights, such as letting women vote, just to gain more influence, even though the fight for women's vote had already been going on for some time.

she wanted uneducated and obedient woman, that brainwash their children too.

just read her speeches:

"We women don't need to think, the General does it for us... 'We will be relentless and fanatical. We will not ask for ability or intelligence. Here, no one owns the truth except Perón, and before supporting a candidate —no matter their rank— we will demand a blank… a blank check of loyalty to Perón, which we will fill with their extermination if they are not man enough to fulfill it.

'And we, my General, in the intimacy of our Argentine Peronist women's hearts, know the responsibility we bear in this historic moment. And we are ready, our civilian armies of women are trained and indoctrinated to teach and instill in the child that the soul of the nation, before it is formed in schools, is shaped by Argentine mothers in the cradle, teaching them to love Perón before blessing their own names.

'I feel that Perón is incomparable. That Perón is God to us, and I say it with all the voice I have and all the words I know. And when my voice and words run out, I will say it anyway. 'We come to be the... the missionaries of the General, as the shirtless ones say, and where there is a missionary, my General, there is a woman. And when women love, we know how to love, my General. 'We women are passionate, my General. We women are fanatical, my General. And the Peronist Party, I honestly confess, is fanatical. And, by being fanatical, it shows that it has embraced a great cause. Only great causes have fanatics; otherwise, there would be neither saints nor heroes, and we are fanatics of Perón.

'We do not fight with anyone except with those who kick for the other goal. Because we cannot, in the name of false unity, do what they did to Catherine... Catherine "the Great" of Russia, with Potemkin, a cardboard house. We will not make fireworks. If there is someone who kicks for the other goal, they will have the Peronist women’s party against them. 'Test us whenever you want, my General. Argentine women love you so much and are willing to do anything with Perón, and the General is so great that, without even being tested, we are already willing to lose, my General. And we will preach about the moral values and Peronist virtues of General Perón, but with practice, my General. We will be loyal until the end, whatever the cost, and no matter who falls.'"
source if you want to listen from her the speech (its on spanish of course): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7aq0bd0ZOpo

she was just a fascist like her husband Juan Domingo Peron, both megalomaniacs that just wanted power and a obedient adoctrinated powerless citizens

its just odd if the devs really researched our history and choose her over the many important figures for ALL argentinians just like

San Martín: he was a central figure in South America's fight for independence, helping free Argentina, Chile, and Peru from Spanish rule

Sarmiento: he pushed Argentina forward by focusing on education, building schools, and promoting cultural and scientific progress

Argentino Roca: He expanded Argentina's territory through the Conquest of the Desert, securing Patagonia, while also driving economic growth and national infrastructure.

Belgrano: A key leader in Argentina's independence movement, he’s best known for creating the national flag and shaping the country’s early military and economic plans

fun fact: Eva Peron and Juan Domingo Peron both are in another game, on Tropico 3, a game that makes fun of LATAM dictators, one of the perks of Evita was "cleptomaniac"

edit: the in-game description of her says this:
"A 20th-century actress and politician, Eva Perón was married to Argentine populist and strongman president Juan Perón. Eva Perón was incredibly popular with the people, particularly the indigenous population. She ran the Ministry of Health and was a strong advocate for labor unions and women's rights."

with this i can already tell the devs didn't research anything about her real history specially aobut the woman rights and popular with the indigenous... (the massacre of the Pilaga people)

[Reaper]

Postat inițial de SchnitzelTruck:

I think you need to make another 20 posts about this.

Postat inițial de Reaper:

the really big difference its she its really recent history for us, and peronism its still a thing on Argentina and most argentinians reject peronism and see peronism as one of the cancers that Argentina still suffers to this day. As i say literally i have alive familiars that lived that time period of Evita and Peron

And? Civ4 had Mao and Stalin which are also from the same time period and infinitely worse. What makes Argentina so special that it's not allowed to have a leader that made negative decisions?

if mods stop locking the threads when they didnt broke any rule, the first thread was getting a lot of movement and the mod team of the game locked it.

Im talking about this game, no Civilization. Also Argentina dont get soo much representation on games just like the ones you mention.

and also as i said Peronism its still a thing to this day on Argentina...

[SchnitzelTruck]

Postat inițial de Reaper:

and also as i said Peronism its still a thing to this day on Argentina...

And so are policies and ideologies forged in the 50's in Russia and China. I dont see how Argentina is special in this regard. I get that its your country and therefore you're more passionate about having a negative leader, but it doesnt seem like that big of a deal to me when most of the leaders in this game did heinous things, and some just as recently as Peron.

[Reaper]

Postat inițial de Maximus Combabilidade:

I don't like Eva Peron, but her bonus was very good, I tried it on my second playthrough.

they revealed her bonuses?

[wilcoxchar]

Postat inițial de Reaper:

Postat inițial de Maximus Combabilidade:

I don't like Eva Peron, but her bonus was very good, I tried it on my second playthrough.

they revealed her bonuses?

Yes, in the first game guide video.

[naapsuland]

Argentina is spanish colony

[Reaper]

Postat inițial de naapsuland:

Argentina is spanish colony

[Titus Caesar Vespasianus]

Peron is a good choice. Also, here is how you spell "hypocrite": H-Y-P-O-C-R-I-T-E

[equivalential]

Sometimes I get the feeling that they just go with whoever is easiest to research. Why Ram Kamhaeng for Thailand, aside from the fact that he founded one of the early kingdoms that eventually formed Siam which gets renamed into Thailand? (As a side note, Thailand is a name that we only started using to 'modernize' AFTER WWII so it feels kind of odd lol) That guy basically did nothing, and his policies basically amounted to 'hey whoever wants to trade whatever can trade here, yo'.

There are better choices to use for actual great kings who are more well known than RK, Naresuan for a battle-heavy guy, Mongkut or Vajiravudh for science/cultural guys, Chulalongkorn if you want industrial, heck go for Narai if you don't want to use the current dynasty for legal reasons. Yeah, I know, Poland uses Nicholas Copernicus, but at least he's famous for *something*.

If you're trying to imply that they only chose her because she's a woman and they want to fill a womanly quota, I don't think that's the case. If you are trying to imply that they chose her because she's famous and easiest to research, then yeah, probably. Is that really such a bad thing, though? I think picking someone well known over someone who's actually good (why the heck is Ram Kamhaeng well known, though??? We actually don't have that many primary sources on him aside from that one tablet, did they just pick from a wikipedia article about first king of Thailand) is a common thing that 4x games do---and getting leaders whose choices still affect you in the present is just what you have to swallow if your civ is a relatively new country. Heck, India is as old as the hills and the common leader they get for these things is usually Gandhi, whom people DO discourse about whether he's a decent guy or a horrible guy.

If I'm surprised by anything, it's that ARA doesn't have more modern leaders so people like Eva don't stand out.

[wilcoxchar]

Postat inițial de equivalential:

Sometimes I get the feeling that they just go with whoever is easiest to research.

Saying this when the Aztec leader is Itzcoatl, Byzantium's leader is Irene Sarantapechaena, Kush's leader is Amanirenas, Australia's leader is Howard Florey, and Italy's leader is Cesare Beccaria is funny. They intentionally included a mix of well known and obscure people for leaders.

[equivalential]

Postat inițial de wilcoxchar:

Postat inițial de equivalential:

Sometimes I get the feeling that they just go with whoever is easiest to research.

Saying this when the Aztec leader is Itzcoatl, Byzantium's leader is Irene Sarantapechaena, Kush's leader is Amanirenas, Australia's leader is Howard Florey, and Italy's leader is Cesare Beccaria is funny. They intentionally included a mix of well known and obscure people for leaders.

Okay fair, I admit I didn't even look at those civs.

So Argentina got hit with the 'let's go with the well known one' stick while Thailand got.....I don't even know what we got. Is he supposed to be the well known guy or the obscure guy? He's somewhere in the middle. Maybe he's the middle sort of guy.

That's still not that big a deal, imo. For every Sarantapechaena you get Washington, for every Howard Florey (who is this dude?) you get Eva Peron.

[wilcoxchar]

Postat inițial de equivalential:

Postat inițial de wilcoxchar:

Saying this when the Aztec leader is Itzcoatl, Byzantium's leader is Irene Sarantapechaena, Kush's leader is Amanirenas, Australia's leader is Howard Florey, and Italy's leader is Cesare Beccaria is funny. They intentionally included a mix of well known and obscure people for leaders.

Okay fair, I admit I didn't even look at those civs.

So Argentina got hit with the 'let's go with the well known one' stick while Thailand got.....I don't even know what we got. Is he supposed to be the well known guy or the obscure guy? He's somewhere in the middle. Maybe he's the middle sort of guy.

That's still not that big a deal, imo. For every Sarantapechaena you get Washington, for every Howard Florey (who is this dude?) you get Eva Peron.

Also consider that the leaders they pick are probably going to be tied to their bonuses, so for instance they probably chose Copernicus to have someone science focused, and Leopold I for Belgium to be diplomacy focused. I can't quickly find a screenshot of Ram Khamhaeng's bonus right now, but I would guess it might be a religious bonus.

Howard Florey was a pathologist who won the Nobel Prize for Medicine for his work in making penicillin manufacturable.

[lusciouslanguidity]

Postat inițial de wilcoxchar:

Postat inițial de equivalential:

Okay fair, I admit I didn't even look at those civs.

So Argentina got hit with the 'let's go with the well known one' stick while Thailand got.....I don't even know what we got. Is he supposed to be the well known guy or the obscure guy? He's somewhere in the middle. Maybe he's the middle sort of guy.

That's still not that big a deal, imo. For every Sarantapechaena you get Washington, for every Howard Florey (who is this dude?) you get Eva Peron.

Also consider that the leaders they pick are probably going to be tied to their bonuses, so for instance they probably chose Copernicus to have someone science focused, and Leopold I for Belgium to be diplomacy focused. I can't quickly find a screenshot of Ram Khamhaeng's bonus right now, but I would guess it might be a religious bonus.

Howard Florey was a pathologist who won the Nobel Prize for Medicine for his work in making penicillin manufacturable.

Ram Khamhaeng is elephants focus, a little bit religion.

yeah a lot of the leader choices are for bonuses, and being a game they want to be creative and provide variety for players. so all military and government leaders would limit the devs ability to provide the variety in leader bonuses.

eva's bonuses do make her appear to be a narcissist sharing benefits with the people.

[Twyceasnyce]

...some guys will always find a hair in the soup

[Reaper]

Postat inițial de Wings of Lardation:

Peron is a good choice. Also, here is how you spell "hypocrite": H-Y-P-O-C-R-I-T-E

?

[Wolf]

Postat inițial de wilcoxchar:

Postat inițial de equivalential:

Okay fair, I admit I didn't even look at those civs.

So Argentina got hit with the 'let's go with the well known one' stick while Thailand got.....I don't even know what we got. Is he supposed to be the well known guy or the obscure guy? He's somewhere in the middle. Maybe he's the middle sort of guy.

That's still not that big a deal, imo. For every Sarantapechaena you get Washington, for every Howard Florey (who is this dude?) you get Eva Peron.

Also consider that the leaders they pick are probably going to be tied to their bonuses, so for instance they probably chose Copernicus to have someone science focused, and Leopold I for Belgium to be diplomacy focused. I can't quickly find a screenshot of Ram Khamhaeng's bonus right now, but I would guess it might be a religious bonus.

Howard Florey was a pathologist who won the Nobel Prize for Medicine for his work in making penicillin manufacturable.

Wait what? Copernicus is a... national leader?! LOL