Whats the point of horsemen if war chariots seems like way better?

[SAS]

their cost is about similar (2 horses vs 1 horse + 1 wheel) but chariots way stronger and has less upkeep
whats the point of horsemen?

[wilcoxchar]

Horsemen don't need wheels.

[alexleshok]

The unit progression in this game seems underbaked both in terms of balance and of history.

I've already addressed the issue with Gunpowder infantry progression in Act II and Tandis promised to get Line Infantry into The Enligthenment (separating the Napoleonic dudes from the Pike & Shot dudes). Also I recommended to move Fusiliers into The Enligtenment and to introduce Tercio anti cav unit into The Renaissance. And to swap strength of more expensive but (sic!) weaker Musketmen with the gunpowder-free but more powerful (sic!) samurai dudes. Never bring a sword into the firefight.

Also I suggested to separate XIX Ironclad and XX C Battleship in the Enligthenment Era and make capital ship progression into:
1. Enlightenment - Ironclad
2. Industrial - Dreadnought
3. Atomic - Battleship
4. Information - Missile Cruiser

TL DR I know that military and warfare aren't key parts of Ara gameplay. But unit progression seems underbaked and weird. Being a fan of Civ V VP and Humankind and considering Ara as the next top tier 4X game - I will try to provide devs with ideas and suggestions on historical and balance unit progression issues

[vivas]

Originally posted by alexleshok:

The unit progression in this game seems underbaked both in terms of balance and of history.

I've already addressed the issue with Gunpowder infantry progression in Act II and Tandis promised to get Line Infantry into The Enligthenment (separating the Napoleonic dudes from the Pike & Shot dudes). Also I recommended to move Fusiliers into The Enligtenment and to introduce Tercio anti cav unit into The Renaissance. And to swap strength of more expensive but (sic!) weaker Musketmen with the gunpowder-free but more powerful (sic!) samurai dudes. Never bring a sword into the firefight.

Also I suggested to separate XIX Ironclad and XX C Battleship in the Enligthenment Era and make capital ship progression into:
1. Enlightenment - Ironclad
2. Industrial - Dreadnought
3. Atomic - Battleship
4. Information - Missile Cruiser

TL DR I know that military and warfare aren't key parts of Ara gameplay. But unit progression seems underbaked and weird. Being a fan of Civ V VP and Humankind and considering Ara as the next top tier 4X game - I will try to provide devs with ideas and suggestions on historical and balance unit progression issues

Your ship ratings are historicly a bit off.

1. Enlightenment age 17th/18th centurie - Ship of the line
2. Industrial age 18th/19th centurie. - Ship of the line/Ironclad
3. Atomic age mid 20th centurie - Battleship/Carrier
4. Information age 20/21 centurie. - Cruiser/Command ship

[alexleshok]

Originally posted by vivas:

Originally posted by alexleshok:

The unit progression in this game seems underbaked both in terms of balance and of history.

I've already addressed the issue with Gunpowder infantry progression in Act II and Tandis promised to get Line Infantry into The Enligthenment (separating the Napoleonic dudes from the Pike & Shot dudes). Also I recommended to move Fusiliers into The Enligtenment and to introduce Tercio anti cav unit into The Renaissance. And to swap strength of more expensive but (sic!) weaker Musketmen with the gunpowder-free but more powerful (sic!) samurai dudes. Never bring a sword into the firefight.

Also I suggested to separate XIX Ironclad and XX C Battleship in the Enligthenment Era and make capital ship progression into:
1. Enlightenment - Ironclad
2. Industrial - Dreadnought
3. Atomic - Battleship
4. Information - Missile Cruiser

TL DR I know that military and warfare aren't key parts of Ara gameplay. But unit progression seems underbaked and weird. Being a fan of Civ V VP and Humankind and considering Ara as the next top tier 4X game - I will try to provide devs with ideas and suggestions on historical and balance unit progression issues

Your ship ratings are historicly a bit off.

1. Enlightenment age 17th/18th centurie - Ship of the line
2. Industrial age 18th/19th centurie. - Ship of the line/Ironclad
3. Atomic age mid 20th centurie - Battleship/Carrier
4. Information age 20/21 centurie. - Cruiser/Command ship

Don't forget of The Dreadnought in the Industrial. And that the Devs stated the Enligtenment era would last until 1870's past The Civil War and the first ironclads

[Walderschmidt]

It feels like technology needs to be slowed down and then there ought to be another dynamic for military theory/tech advancement.

Wald

[alexleshok]

Originally posted by Walderschmidt:

It feels like technology needs to be slowed down and then there ought to be another dynamic for military theory/tech advancement.

Wald

Yep. But units seem to be packed too dense (Musketmen&Line Inf, Battleship contemporary with Ironclad but preceding Dreadnought. So unit progression definitely is too compacted and needs to be revised separately from tech pacing

[Takfloyd]

A lot of this stuff is just arbitrary and was clearly in the middle of development when the game build had to be locked down for release. Berserkers state on the tooltip that they unlock in the Antiquity when they are in fact unlocked in Early Middle Ages, for example.

Hopefully the devs have a guy on their team with an eye for these things who will fix things up before too long.

[VDmitry]

Originally posted by wilcoxchar:

Horsemen don't need wheels.

But 2 times more horses.

[archonsod]

Originally posted by wilcoxchar:

Horsemen don't need wheels.

Yup. Important to note the tech which unlocks cavalry ("Chariot") does not in fact unlock the wheel. So I'm guessing the slightly weaker horseman is there on the off chance a player skips "The Wheel" in the Bronze Age (your next chance to get it being "Algebra" in Antiquity) and doesn't have access to elephants (since war elephants are also an option).

Originally posted by Takfloyd:

Berserkers state on the tooltip that they unlock in the Antiquity

Technically it describes them as an Antiquities Era unit rather than stating it unlocks in that age. There's a few things where that happens - not least of which the tech that unlocks them (Brewing) being Early Middle Ages while the examples Encarta cites are 3500 BCE, 3000 BCE and 2100 BCE.

[wilcoxchar]

Originally posted by archonsod:

Originally posted by wilcoxchar:

Horsemen don't need wheels.

Yup. Important to note the tech which unlocks cavalry ("Chariot") does not in fact unlock the wheel. So I'm guessing the slightly weaker horseman is there on the off chance a player skips "The Wheel" in the Bronze Age (your next chance to get it being "Algebra" in Antiquity) and doesn't have access to elephants (since war elephants are also an option).

In my first playthrough when I was able to get to the wheel tech, I realized the only thing that it was giving me was the wheel good, so I actually decided to do a playthrough going as long as possible without wheels, so until Industrialization. It was pretty neat, the only real drawback is you're locked out of most siege units, but I had elephants so elephant ballistae made up for that. I did still have two wheels from caches so I could've used those if I wanted to, usually just put them in granaries but I could've made exactly one wheeled unit. It did get kind of funny in act 2 when I could research and make gears but not wheels.