QoL and confusion in tutorial/information

[Dragonlord]

I've played many, many games like this, and there is usually a pretty linear progression for the tutorial/start of the game. Some issues I ran into: During the tutorial it states a MINIMUM amount of floors, walls, doors, etc. However, your next steps are things like, adding an oven storage, quest board etc. There is no foresight into what you will be doing next OR how it interacts with the plot. I filled the entire plot in, expecting it to be smaller items, that all of the internal items would be in the same plot, etc, expecting multiple workers needing larger areas, your characters needing to move, etc, however, that is not the case. There was no statement that each area ONLY does one function, and that some of the items will need to be placed OUTSIDE the building on the plot itself. This led to a lot of rebuilding and reworking the building, after making an interior, to fit the quest board, beehive, etc outside. Same with the Blacksmith, because the forge is the first item that needs to be placed outside, meaning I completed the entirety of my Inn, walls, floors, decorations, tables, chairs etc, before realizing each plot only caters to one type of building, since there is only one allowed workshop per plot. After all of that, when creating weapons, I couldn't find an inventory showing me what weapons I had available that weren't directly in a heroes hands, nor could I swap the weapons they chose to use in any manner I attempted to try. After creating quests, some of the heroes did not have the correct CR to do the quest, but I couldn't find a way to cancel a quest so that I could make one at the correct CR. I also didn't see a way to change anything to make the CR less, even though the tutorial stated there was a way. While there is 4 different resources you can pick off the map, you only show one, the other three are just kind of wave the mouse around until it lights up on something, and then remember what it looked like. I found probably 3 mushrooms to every tree, 2 trees to every fishing spot, and only ever found one metal node that was active on the map. They need to be a little easier to spot at a glance. I did not see anything that showed what COOKED food was already on hand, so I just kind of guessed at what I had made, what had been used, and what I needed to make etc. Another issues is traders and the weapons master. In you buildings you can click the counters etc to get menus, however, you have to track down the guy under the awning, or walking around to get their menu.


Possible solutions:
Highlight clickable resources with an outline or a brighter color/shading to distinguish it from the local area.

Explain while building the Inn that each plot can only have ONE workstation/type per plot.

Make a ghost image of a small Inn with the quest board outside, maybe a table or chair inside, etc in the tutorial screen so people understand the relative size needed for the building, and that some items will need to be outside on the plot.

Make the Trader awning/weapons master camp clickable for their menu, as opposed to trying to adjust the camera, or run down the guy walking around.

Make it so you can see, and cancel quests to allow for changes if you mess up.

Have an on hand inventory of completed weapons, armor, and food, not just the base resources.

Allow a quick and easy in hero panel ability to change or assign weapons to specific heroes


This was the first play through, reading the tutorial, following the bullet points. I could very well have missed something, but that being said, anyone that picks up the game for the first time and follows the tutorial can run into the same issues, as well as an inability to easily figure out the mechanics by trial and error, clicking, menus, etc.

That being said, I really enjoy the game, and I really think it will be a great, fun, management style game, it just needs a little more polish, and some QoL improvements in streamlining player interfacing and understanding of the base mechanics during the tutorial portion.

[Biff Gimble]

I agree. Instead of just telling the player "that can't be placed here" say, "can't be built on floor" or "must be placed outside on the plot". I tried for 5 minutes trying to place the quest board. Finally had to Google the answer because you didn't give me the info in the tutorial. Same with the blacksmith forge. Can't build it on a floor. Has to be built outside on the plot.

One other problem I had was I clicked on a hero follow cam to see what it did. Cool. But, then he got up to leave the inn to go on a quest and I couldn't click off of him. When I clicked on him I got a "hero is doing something else now" or some such message. Couldn't click on the either fast travel buttons either. Nothing. My inn is burning to the ground (not really but it could have been) and I'm following this doofus around and can't do anything about it.

Looks like a fun game though. I've wishlisted it.

[Chaya]

Hey guys, thanks for trying out "A Hero's Rest"
I'm gonna do my best to answer your questions/issues you found.

Dragonlord původně napsal:

Highlight clickable resources with an outline or a brighter color/shading to distinguish it from the local area.

When you hover over the resources on the map, they are highlighted by a bright outline - after you've gathered them they take a while to respawn.

Dragonlord původně napsal:

Explain while building the Inn that each plot can only have ONE workstation/type per plot.

Each Workstation in the Build-Menu has a Tooltip that explains it is only possible to build one workstation per plot.

Dragonlord původně napsal:

Make a ghost image of a small Inn with the quest board outside, maybe a table or chair inside, etc in the tutorial screen so people understand the relative size needed for the building, and that some items will need to be outside on the plot.

We feel that showing an image of an inn will make players feel like they cannot build freely. The Build-Menu has categories for "Interior" and "Exterior" Items, so we felt it was clear that items/structures will be placed outside as well.

Dragonlord původně napsal:

Make the Trader awning/weapons master camp clickable for their menu, as opposed to trying to adjust the camera, or run down the guy walking around.

We can look into that!

Dragonlord původně napsal:

Make it so you can see, and cancel quests to allow for changes if you mess up.

Dragonlord původně napsal:

Have an on hand inventory of completed weapons, armor, and food, not just the base resources.

During the Tutorial Mr. George points out the Build & Inventory Buttons on the lower left side of the screen (Hammer and Bag) - but you can also open the Inventory by pressing "4" on your Keyboard if it is more comfortable.

Dragonlord původně napsal:

Allow a quick and easy in hero panel ability to change or assign weapons to specific heroes

Instead of assigning Equipment to the Heroes - they come to your Town to get the things they need by themselves! If you want to take more control of their fate, you can assign them Quests or reserve Food and Potions through the Inventory Menu (click the Bag Icon in the Bottom Left or press "4").

Dragonlord původně napsal:

That being said, I really enjoy the game, and I really think it will be a great, fun, management style game, it just needs a little more polish, and some QoL improvements in streamlining player interfacing and understanding of the base mechanics during the tutorial portion.

That's exactly why we're going into Early Access, to get the Feedback from Players! Thanks you for taking the time to write out the Issues you were facing.

Rasalsul původně napsal:

I agree. Instead of just telling the player "that can't be placed here" say, "can't be built on floor" or "must be placed outside on the plot". I tried for 5 minutes trying to place the quest board. Finally had to Google the answer because you didn't give me the info in the tutorial. Same with the blacksmith forge. Can't build it on a floor. Has to be built outside on the plot.

We'll look into a way to clarify what can be built where.

Rasalsul původně napsal:

One other problem I had was I clicked on a hero follow cam to see what it did. Cool. But, then he got up to leave the inn to go on a quest and I couldn't click off of him. When I clicked on him I got a "hero is doing something else now" or some such message. Couldn't click on the either fast travel buttons either. Nothing. My inn is burning to the ground (not really but it could have been) and I'm following this doofus around and can't do anything about it.

Clicking on the Hero while you are following him will make him react to you - he might show off his weapon skills for example. To stop following the Heroes you can press "Esc" and it will take you right back to the normal view.

(I will also move this Thread to the Feedback Forum)

[Dragonlord]

Chaya původně napsal:

Hey guys, thanks for trying out "A Hero's Rest"
I'm gonna do my best to answer your questions/issues you found.

Dragonlord původně napsal:

Highlight clickable resources with an outline or a brighter color/shading to distinguish it from the local area.

When you hover over the resources on the map, they are highlighted by a bright outline - after you've gathered them they take a while to respawn.

Dragonlord původně napsal:

Explain while building the Inn that each plot can only have ONE workstation/type per plot.

Each Workstation in the Build-Menu has a Tooltip that explains it is only possible to build one workstation per plot.

Dragonlord původně napsal:

Make a ghost image of a small Inn with the quest board outside, maybe a table or chair inside, etc in the tutorial screen so people understand the relative size needed for the building, and that some items will need to be outside on the plot.

We feel that showing an image of an inn will make players feel like they cannot build freely. The Build-Menu has categories for "Interior" and "Exterior" Items, so we felt it was clear that items/structures will be placed outside as well.

Dragonlord původně napsal:

Make the Trader awning/weapons master camp clickable for their menu, as opposed to trying to adjust the camera, or run down the guy walking around.

We can look into that!

Dragonlord původně napsal:

Make it so you can see, and cancel quests to allow for changes if you mess up.

Dragonlord původně napsal:

Have an on hand inventory of completed weapons, armor, and food, not just the base resources.

During the Tutorial Mr. George points out the Build & Inventory Buttons on the lower left side of the screen (Hammer and Bag) - but you can also open the Inventory by pressing "4" on your Keyboard if it is more comfortable.

Dragonlord původně napsal:

Allow a quick and easy in hero panel ability to change or assign weapons to specific heroes

Instead of assigning Equipment to the Heroes - they come to your Town to get the things they need by themselves! If you want to take more control of their fate, you can assign them Quests or reserve Food and Potions through the Inventory Menu (click the Bag Icon in the Bottom Left or press "4").

Dragonlord původně napsal:

That being said, I really enjoy the game, and I really think it will be a great, fun, management style game, it just needs a little more polish, and some QoL improvements in streamlining player interfacing and understanding of the base mechanics during the tutorial portion.

That's exactly why we're going into Early Access, to get the Feedback from Players! Thanks you for taking the time to write out the Issues you were facing.

Rasalsul původně napsal:

I agree. Instead of just telling the player "that can't be placed here" say, "can't be built on floor" or "must be placed outside on the plot". I tried for 5 minutes trying to place the quest board. Finally had to Google the answer because you didn't give me the info in the tutorial. Same with the blacksmith forge. Can't build it on a floor. Has to be built outside on the plot.

We'll look into a way to clarify what can be built where.

Rasalsul původně napsal:

One other problem I had was I clicked on a hero follow cam to see what it did. Cool. But, then he got up to leave the inn to go on a quest and I couldn't click off of him. When I clicked on him I got a "hero is doing something else now" or some such message. Couldn't click on the either fast travel buttons either. Nothing. My inn is burning to the ground (not really but it could have been) and I'm following this doofus around and can't do anything about it.

Clicking on the Hero while you are following him will make him react to you - he might show off his weapon skills for example. To stop following the Heroes you can press "Esc" and it will take you right back to the normal view.

(I will also move this Thread to the Feedback Forum)

I'm not sure I've ever had a game, that in the tutorial section, where it brings up the picture of what to click, or do, where it shows a small looping gif of an example building, that I've felt I can't make my own how I want. It has, however, given me an idea of the sizing, or future placement of items that I haven't gotten to, keying me in to the fact that I will need X amount of room outside for stuff when I do start building.

Having interior/exterior seems ok to the devs, because you are intimately familiar with the information and the game, and are able to extrapolate that information into how you look at it. The feedback from players is looking at it with fresh eyes, and not knowing the game. After playing I get that each workshop is on an individual plot. Going into the game, I was going to make one big building on the plot, multiple workshops, etc, and a second plot had outdoor things, such the beehive, etc. But the game mechanic doesn't work that way, and what is clear to someone that understands the plot mechanic because you developed it, is not clear to someone ASSUMING something because it wasn't stated during the tutorial phase of the game, which is supposed to explicitly define those parameters of how your system works, including single workshops to plots, each plot housing a different trade, etc.

Yes, it does highlight when you mouse over, but some of the resources don't stand out from any other non-interactive object of a like type until you do. If that is intended, so be it, but I find it better to be able to move across the map and immediately see a resource that HAS respawned, as opposed to trying to spin the camera around, and mouse over everything to check.

The tooltip of the object does state one per plot, however, the tutorial on creating your Inn does not. I did notice the one per plot when I was making the blacksmith shop, but by that time the Inn was built far bigger than necessary under the presumption that I would be putting multiple things into it. It really wouldn't be an issue during the tutorial when it says "Now we will make an Inn, as a reminder, each plot can only hold one workshop type and its accompanying internal and external buildings" to completely remove any confusion.

I get that they come to the town to get what they need, but if I have my best guy able to do better CR's carrying around a broken sword, cause someone else scooped up the Legendary I made after he equipped himself, then thats an issue. If the function of it is that they are "buying" their equipment from the blacksmith, then I should have the function that when a hero enters the town, I get to choose what weapon I "sell" them since there is no monetary transaction anyway, and then be unable to change it because they "own" it, at the very least, so that I can maybe either make a better sword, or assign the best one I have at the time, or even allow me to "sell" them an upgrade after their quest or something so that I can keep getting them the best equipment for the better heroes I have.

[Mudd]

"We feel that showing an image of an inn will make players feel like they cannot build freely. The Build-Menu has categories for "Interior" and "Exterior" Items, so we felt it was clear that items/structures will be placed outside as well."

First, showing players how to build the very first building in a tutorial on building buildings only makes sense. Right?
"Easy" fix? Have Mr George tell us to drop 9 floor spaces in a 3x3 patch first. Then he could say "Now change your tooltip to Walls, and place 10 wall sections around the edges of your floor. Now select and place 2 doorframes in the 2 remaining spaces around the floor. In each doorframe, place a door. After that, change tooltips to 'Work Stations' and place an 'Innkeepers Counter' inside your new inn. Voila!! Now you're ready for business!"
Now we have learned how to choose and place all the pieces of our first building. And the lesson was FAST and painless.
Also in there somewhere, Mr George (or a Hint Box) can explain how to move, delete and rotate pieces that need to be fixed.

At the end of that piece of tutorial, maybe adding a short line like: "Now that you know how to place everything, feel free to experiment with your own layouts!"