So hey...This is awkward...

[Erikkustrife]

So yea look im all about inclusiveness and Making sure anyone can relate to characters that their playing as. But There's a reason why there was no black people in the original Oregon trail and adding them is kinda like just ignoring that really racist fact. We should remember everything that's happened that we as a society have tried to make better over time.

[KaosReigns]

While I agree, I can also tell you this is a losing battle. Even when you make sense, like with a character such as Snow White, you will still be unable to point out the facts.

[Genoism]

Don't you know, historical facts are no longer a thing. Nowadays just listen to whatever the left says and nod in agreement, otherwise, you're a racist.

[Lemon]

引用自 Genoism：

Don't you know, historical facts are no longer a thing. Nowadays just listen to whatever the left says and nod in agreement, otherwise, you're a racist.

Mr. Cheese Puff himself?

[Nightshade]

引用自 Genoism：

Don't you know, historical facts are no longer a thing. Nowadays just listen to whatever the left says and nod in agreement, otherwise, you're a racist.

Isn't that kind of needlessly combative and offensive? Perpetuating the stereotype that right-wingers are ignorant pablum-pushers with no sense of irony when speaking about "facts?"

I'd like to think most, regardless of political orientation, would be capable of a five-second Google search to see that, yes, there were indeed black settlers on the Oregon Trail. (Few though they were, and the willingness of some notwithstanding.)

This thread actually kind of proves the inclusion is valuable, given the game's status as an educational title.

(Yes, I'll give you one freebie: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Bush_(pioneer) )

[murderbits]

Plenty of black folks traveled the Oregon Trail. In fact, they were some of the earliest people to do so. Some free and some not. The region was anti-black (they created "black exclusion laws to prevent them from settling within the borders), but they were also anti-slavery (and so slavery was abolished well before state-hood -- and the exclusionary laws began to be repealed as soon as the 14th Amendment passed just after statehood).

In fact, black people are believed to have first started arriving in the 1500s -- both free and not -- on ships from overseas. The first confirmed presence of a black person was in 1788. A crew member of an American ship from Cabo Verde.

Countless others also came to the area very early. Some were trappers working for themselves. Some were employees of the Hudson Bay Company or even the Pacific Fur Company.

And while exclusionary laws did exist, black people were still very present in Oregon. By 1860, they lived in at least 14 of the 19 counties. Almost 70,000 lived in all of the Northwest Territories according to a federal census in 1860.

While there was a lot of racism in the state, there was also a lot of integration and cohesion. More than you might imagine. That isn't to imply that it was by any means a paradise, of course. And the state has a lengthy history of racism, overall.


Anyway, even more contrary to your point:

A black man named York was a key part of Lewis & Clark's expedition. He was a slave of Clark's family (and not a freeman until decades after the expedition), but he was a critical member. He contributed right down to having his vote counted in decisions during the expedition.

He is known among the Nez Perce as "The Raven's Son".

There is a huge monument in Montana consisting of Lewis, Clark, and York together exploring.

Portland's Mount Tabor area had a giant bust of York until it began to be defaced by BLM rioters in 2021 (and though it was eventually destroyed, they are considering rebuilding it).

There's also a prominently featured life-sized statue of York at Lewis & Clark College.


So in conclusion:

引用自 Erikkustrife：

So yea look im all about inclusiveness and Making sure anyone can relate to characters that their playing as. But There's a reason why there was no black people in the original Oregon trail

Incorrect.

and adding them is kinda like just ignoring that really racist fact.

Incorrect.

We should remember everything that's happened that we as a society have tried to make better over time.

Correct. The important history, existence, and contribution of black people who traveled the Oregon Trail and were some of the earliest to travel it, and literally lead the expedition to the territory, and even prior to that had a presence and contribution to the area and its history should be remembered.

[WaterMelwin]

who cares

[River Otter]

引用自 murderbits：

Plenty of black folks traveled the Oregon Trail. In fact, they were some of the earliest people to do so. Some free and some not. The region was anti-black (they created "black exclusion laws to prevent them from settling within the borders), but they were also anti-slavery (and so slavery was abolished well before state-hood -- and the exclusionary laws began to be repealed as soon as the 14th Amendment passed just after statehood).

In fact, black people are believed to have first started arriving in the 1500s -- both free and not -- on ships from overseas. The first confirmed presence of a black person was in 1788. A crew member of an American ship from Cabo Verde.

Countless others also came to the area very early. Some were trappers working for themselves. Some were employees of the Hudson Bay Company or even the Pacific Fur Company.

And while exclusionary laws did exist, black people were still very present in Oregon. By 1860, they lived in at least 14 of the 19 counties. Almost 70,000 lived in all of the Northwest Territories according to a federal census in 1860.

While there was a lot of racism in the state, there was also a lot of integration and cohesion. More than you might imagine. That isn't to imply that it was by any means a paradise, of course. And the state has a lengthy history of racism, overall.


Anyway, even more contrary to your point:

A black man named York was a key part of Lewis & Clark's expedition. He was a slave of Clark's family (and not a freeman until decades after the expedition), but he was a critical member. He contributed right down to having his vote counted in decisions during the expedition.

He is known among the Nez Perce as "The Raven's Son".

There is a huge monument in Montana consisting of Lewis, Clark, and York together exploring.

Portland's Mount Tabor area had a giant bust of York until it began to be defaced by BLM rioters in 2021 (and though it was eventually destroyed, they are considering rebuilding it).

There's also a prominently featured life-sized statue of York at Lewis & Clark College.


So in conclusion:

引用自 Erikkustrife：

So yea look im all about inclusiveness and Making sure anyone can relate to characters that their playing as. But There's a reason why there was no black people in the original Oregon trail

Incorrect.

and adding them is kinda like just ignoring that really racist fact.

Incorrect.

We should remember everything that's happened that we as a society have tried to make better over time.

Correct. The important history, existence, and contribution of black people who traveled the Oregon Trail and were some of the earliest to travel it, and literally lead the expedition to the territory, and even prior to that had a presence and contribution to the area and its history should be remembered.

Fun read. Thanks.

[MTGyrl]

There were definitely Black people and mixed race people on the Oregon Trail and everywhere else in 19th century western U.S. People should educate themselves before making stupid blanket and racist statements.

[MARegulus]

"So yea look im all about inclusiveness[...] But [...]". I mean, c'mon, you're not even trying. This is just an extremely lazy, "I know this sounds racist, BUT" re-branding that implements obnoxious hipster virtue signaling (literally the worst of both worlds--having a smug moral superiority complex, while doing no work and perpetuating racism/alternative facts).

I don't care if you're left, right, or center. Just do a Google search. It's OK to check a couple of sources (you should), but if your "research" is whatever first comes to mind, one propaganda news source, or worst of all...memes...you need to rethink your empirical approach.

[D-Coke]

引用自 Erikkustrife：

So yea look im all about inclusiveness and Making sure anyone can relate to characters that their playing as. But There's a reason why there was no black people in the original Oregon trail and adding them is kinda like just ignoring that really racist fact. We should remember everything that's happened that we as a society have tried to make better over time.

This "woke" s-hit and whatever people consume these days in a throw-away instant gratification society is mind boggling, scary and super annoying to come across. I blame the internet.

[Waltzing]

引用自 :WaterMelon:：

who cares

Alot of people do and it's best to actually follow history. In the end all you get is half wits who don't understand that 10th century Europe was 99.999% European and that small left over weren't exactly permanent residents.

The real question is does this game feature indian attacks which made up 20-25% of deaths on the trail.

[EmperorVolo]

引用自 Erikkustrife：

So yea look im all about inclusiveness and Making sure anyone can relate to characters that their playing as. But There's a reason why there was no black people in the original Oregon trail and adding them is kinda like just ignoring that really racist fact. We should remember everything that's happened that we as a society have tried to make better over time.

Like this: African Americans were among the pioneers who crossed the trail to Oregon, some coming willingly as free men and women but others forced to travel as the property of slaveholders. Those who reached Oregon between the 1840s and 1860s probably numbered in the hundreds.

https://www.nps.gov/articles/000/african-americans-on-the-oregon-trail.htm

[MKV B58]

it doesn't matter if there was no colored person last game, what matters is that as a society we should be more inclusive to everyone.
It's 2022, be more open minded.

[Darkstar]

引用自 Tenshi：

it doesn't matter if there was no colored person last game, what matters is that as a society we should be more inclusive to everyone.
It's 2022, be more open minded.

No

[Carlz0r]

引用自 D-Coke：

引用自 Erikkustrife：

So yea look im all about inclusiveness and Making sure anyone can relate to characters that their playing as. But There's a reason why there was no black people in the original Oregon trail and adding them is kinda like just ignoring that really racist fact. We should remember everything that's happened that we as a society have tried to make better over time.

This "woke" s-hit and whatever people consume these days in a throw-away instant gratification society is mind boggling, scary and super annoying to come across. I blame the internet.

Then get off the internet. Maybe go get an education with all the free time you'll have. There's plenty of historic proof that black people traveling the Oregon Trail under a variety of circumstances did in fact happen. Just because nobody ever told you that when you were young doesn't mean it didn't happen.

Doesn't even necessarily mean anyone intentionally hid it from you, either.. but the information is out there on the internet, and in books that are older than your grandfather.