MOD: Litcube Universe with Mayhem

[Cheshire Cat]

I just installed LU. How should I play it first; LU only or LU+Mayhem? Does Mayhem affect any campaigns LU has?

[Kreon91 [GER]]

You should view them as separate games. Especially since the last year they are very different from each other. Mayhem also adds it's own ship and weapon balancing. Experience with LU doesn't really add anything now and might do more harm than good if you get used to LU gameplay and switch to Mayhem. But they are both very good mods.

I'd go with the one that appeals to you the most. Read their descriptions.

[CaptainTeamwork]

The problem I have with these mods is the lack of useful information. You will spend just as much time trying to find any info as you will playing the game.

Another thing that really bothers me is the attitude you get for asking questions over at the egosoft forums. They have some weird rules about where you are supposed to post your questions which you will never get right. You want to find out about a mod? Ask a question. You might get a reply or you might not. Someone might tell you you shouldn't post in old posts, you should start a new thread. Then someone else will tell you that that topic belongs in the old thread.

I have spent way more time trying to find useful information than I have playing.

I'm really let down by that. The game seems to have been intentionally left undone so that modders could come in and fix it. The modders while talented come across as being very sensitive about their mods and don't really want to provide any type of guides or walkthroughs or anything.

I've asked questions and been told to go read the mod page, which currently consist of over 400 pages of comments and people making jokes or talking about other garbage.

Sorry but that is just dumb.

[Don]

Originally posted by General Mayhem:

The problem I have with these mods is the lack of useful information. You will spend just as much time trying to find any info as you will playing the game.

I'm sorry you felt let down and I do understand your frustration since the Egosoft forum is one hard beast to navigate. You have to understand that X3AP is an old game so most of the answers are probably in threads already, it's just a matter of hitting the right ones. Also, most of the veterans and modders have already moved on or inactive, so you'll most likely get replies from current players of which some may be frustrated as you.

While Egosoft do release buggy games, X3AP is a solid vanilla game on it's own today. Mods are only needed if you need further gameplay or to add some in-game tweaks you like. Modders don't owe anybody anything, but they are gracious enough to share their work, so don't expect full guides or walk-thrus. All the mods I've used had enough info to install and what it actually does to the game. Those mods that have vague info, I avoid.

Now, some mods that actually add further gameplay, I understand why there is little info, since the mod makers probably just want to keep the surprise. Example: The Phanon Corporation mod. It's good to know how to install and what it does: add a competing corporation against you. But knowing details like what sectors they may spawn, what assets they can throw at you, and how they increase lethality will spoil the game.

Finally, jokes and "garbage" is understandable. It is a forum and the community will talk and want to compare, relate, brag, and just provide humor. The surprising thing is that those garbage are actually full of veteran wisdom. I just wish that when I discovered X3 that the community was still active and am able to participate in those discussions (like favorite ships and such).

[CaptainTeamwork]

Originally posted by don:

Originally posted by General Mayhem:

The problem I have with these mods is the lack of useful information. You will spend just as much time trying to find any info as you will playing the game.

While Egosoft do release buggy games, X3AP is a solid vanilla game on it's own today. Mods are only needed if you need further gameplay or to add some in-game tweaks you like. Modders don't owe anybody anything, but they are gracious enough to share their work, so don't expect full guides or walk-thrus. All the mods I've used had enough info to install and what it actually does to the game. Those mods that have vague info, I avoid.


I can't agree with you Don. Egosoft released a game that was half done at best. A few mods are essential to have a game working in a way that was originally conceived. There is NO excuse for having the option and even encouraging players to own many ships and maintain them through tedious micromanagement in windows that can only be opened one at a time just to have them run into each other and die the first time you try to use them. That's not acceptable.

BOUNCE should have been a part of the original game or some script like it. The Terran faction is half baked. They have very nice looking ships and stations but the faction as a whole is just near broken. Their sectors are just way too large with slow ships and barely any jumpgates not to mention their lack of a couple key stations the player should be able to buy to maintain their economy but can't without mods.

Then there is fleet management during battles. Some sort of carrier management script like CODEA is essential to having a working/enjoyable experience when using a multitude of ships to wage a war. You could do it the vanilla way and just manage a list of ships in a single window while there is a battle waging outside. A battle the player should be watching and engaging in.

The list goes on and on. This game was thought out but not thought out well. Modders came and rescued the game in my opinion. Just like many modern video games. I got several hundred hours into the game before I realized I would get no further without pulling out my hair in frustration. Some mods need to be a part of vanilla, especially BOUNCE.

I said "garbage" out of frustration. I shouldn't have. People have every right to have a good time, that's why we're all on these forums in the first place. I appreciate the help you have given me when I ask questions. There should be an easier way for potential players to find the information NEEDED to play this game that has potential.


EDIT: the quote didn't work the way I hoped, sorry

[Don]

No worries about the quotes LOL.

I honestly think a lot of players just went straight to modding and never gave vanilla a chance. My vanilla playthru is over 4000 hours and I still play it today. Difficult UI doesn't mean bugs, and it's just something you have to get used to, and some even like it that way. Mods were made for the game and because of that, players got spoiled and tend to think that it should have been part of the game. You can say the same to Minecraft, Fallout, Ark, and all the games that have mods, it has vanilla but most prefer to play modded. It doesn't mean the game was broken to begin with, but the player just prefer to play a different way.

BOUNCE I can live without. The Terran economy is fine in all my vanilla playtime. Not sure about what stations you mentioned that's lacking since I'm able to provide everything for my Terran ships in vanilla, so can you provide info on that? Terrans by the way has awesome ships, and I use lots them in my fleet, like Hayabusas, Tyrs, Osakas, Aegirs, Springblossoms, and the Atmospheric Lifters. CODEA is definitely nice if I play carrier strikes, but since I'm not much into managing fighters, I go for M7M barrages, Drone saturation, or If I'm rich and want to get down and dirty, just pile on a lot of fully loaded M2s. This means I can play vanilla fine and still can devastate a sector. Even the rare crashes that I do get are actually from mod conflicts during modded playthru.

Don't take this as a disagreement of your play style, since I know everyone prefer to play a certain way. Just giving you a perspective that vanilla works fine and actually enjoyed by a lot of players.

I do understand your frustration coz finding info is a hit or miss. But this game is so in depth that you'll discover a lot more even after you think you know it all. Just take your time and remember this is just a game. This steam forum has been more helpful lately to new players, and a lot of veterans here are willing to impart knowledge. Some have even linked sources from the Egosft forum for details so you don't have to search. So please don't hesitate to ask...

[Don]

Originally posted by Kreon91 GER:

You should view them as separate games. Especially since the last year they are very different from each other. Mayhem also adds it's own ship and weapon balancing. Experience with LU doesn't really add anything now and might do more harm than good if you get used to LU gameplay and switch to Mayhem. But they are both very good mods.

I'd go with the one that appeals to you the most. Read their descriptions.

I never played LU, but I always thought that Mayhem was an integral mod for LU. So the new LU only has Mayhem as optional?

[CaptainTeamwork]

Originally posted by don:

Originally posted by Kreon91 GER:

You should view them as separate games. Especially since the last year they are very different from each other. Mayhem also adds it's own ship and weapon balancing. Experience with LU doesn't really add anything now and might do more harm than good if you get used to LU gameplay and switch to Mayhem. But they are both very good mods.

I'd go with the one that appeals to you the most. Read their descriptions.

I never played LU, but I always thought that Mayhem was an integral mod for LU. So the new LU only has Mayhem as optional?

So what I've read is LU is a mod and MAYHEM is a mod of that mod. You have to do a fresh install of LU then add the MAYHEM mod to it. If you are looking for a new XP experience then I would highly recommend MAYHEM so far. It is very different in that you start off as the leader of your own race and you have to do everything you can to at first survive and then grow as you see fit. The gameplay is mostly the same as far as flying around ships and trading but the fundamentals are different. Combat is different though. The ship guns are different, you don't just blast away forever. Your guns fire once every second or two so you want to make sure your aim is true.

You don't buy ships, you build them. You can still cap ships but in doing so you learn how to build them. There are real wars between the races. You expand as your own race expands. It's quite clever so far.

It is less sandbox and more goal oriented with many, many changes from the X3AP experience. Two totally different games from what I've experienced so far. I would recommend it to you. It seems you have quite a bit of experience with X3 both modded and vanilla so it would absolutely be a challenge even to a seasoned player such as yourself.

The only issue I'm coming up with is information really. The in-game encyclopedia is very helpful but still there needs to be more info. The game really is that different.

I used to be one of those "jump into the game and figure it out as I go" players. Nowadays I read the manual first. Getting old slows you down and gives you the wisdom to think first then react instead of the other way around...



...at least it has for me. =)

[Don]

Originally posted by General Mayhem:

I used to be one of those "jump into the game and figure it out as I go" players. Nowadays I read the manual first. Getting old slows you down and gives you the wisdom to think first then react instead of the other way around...



...at least it has for me. =)

I'm the same as you on that LOL.

BTW, I thought OCV was Mayhem? The reason I'm not jumping on LU is the rush to contain the OCV. I love my sandbox game at my own pace, so timed threats just gives me anxiety. Is there still good gameplay in LU without Mayhem?

Edit: Just browsed the Mayhem Mod page, and it seems you can have Mayhem installed and disable OCV. hmmmmmm.....

[Cheshire Cat]

Originally posted by don:

Originally posted by General Mayhem:

I used to be one of those "jump into the game and figure it out as I go" players. Nowadays I read the manual first. Getting old slows you down and gives you the wisdom to think first then react instead of the other way around...



...at least it has for me. =)

I'm the same as you on that LOL.

BTW, I thought OCV was Mayhem? The reason I'm not jumping on LU is the rush to contain the OCV. I love my sandbox game at my own pace, so timed threats just gives me anxiety. Is there still good gameplay in LU without Mayhem?

Edit: Just browsed the Mayhem Mod page, and it seems you can have Mayhem installed and disable OCV. hmmmmmm.....

I installed Mayhem on top of LU. Let's see how it goes. Hopefully, I won't get lost between info and lore I otherwise would have gotten in "vanilla" LU, like what is OCV and why are they dangerous (read slight backstory on LU wikia). I am kinda anxious about having to provide to your people so they don't starve and OCV expansion. Early game urgency is really not my thing tbh. However, I saw that one of new game starts has OCV disabled.

[Don]

Nice! Hope you enjoy this play-thru. I'm also thinking of doing an LU game after I finish my vanilla empire (thanks to you and General Mayhem's info) :D

[Harrison]

I’ve never tried Mayhem, no interest in it, and most of time when I play LU I turn off OCV and the “enemy player” (Phenon, I think it’s called?) especially after they dropped an Elephant on top of me 2 minutes into a new game once.