How can I optimize this complex?

[Serphilith]

Hi X3 community,

I'm fairly new to complex building, and I made a complex of a few factories with the purpose of making it self-sustaining...

My question is, with my head-math.. I can't seem to find the number of factories needed to sustain it. Anyone know the numbers?

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=839083079


Thanks in advance!
Serph

[Ketraar]

Indeed Xandrians Complex Calculator is great. But you need to take a few things into consideration.

1. ALWAYS build L mines. There is no point in waisting money on M mines, given asteroids never deplete.
   
2. Consider open loops. I know most people are fond of credits printing selfsustaining complexes and there is nothing fundamentaly wrong with that. But if you include NPC production into your loop you not only get wares for cheap(er) but also potentially create demand, thus more profit. Always sell your primary (L1) wares production for high and buy the same for cheap from NPCs. Keeping the Local economy working is beneficial in the long run.
   
3. As rule of thumb, L1 factories, produce in one cycle the same as L2 factories need. So 1 Bio Gas factory wil produce 5 units of GoGas, and a BoFu Chem lab wil require the same 5 units of BioGas* (and some Energy Cells) to produce one cycle (15) of BoFu

MFG

Ketraar

[EDIT] *changed to Biogas instead of (wrongly) BoFu

[Serphilith]

Wow, both.. thanks for the info

I'll use both to come up with something. ;)

[Draker Loss]

Thanks for the link

[Xautos]

if i were in your position i would consider spaceweed and spacefuel refineries xD. nothing but proper filthy cash and they always sell and you make a massive profit each time and the npcs can't get enough of it. you must also make sure the production doesn't catch the attention of the authorities because they are likely to destroy your complex as a lot of authorities consider such things as contraband. so try a system that is owned by the athorities but there are never any patrols in the area or a neutral system.

as for your cattle ranches and such, make sure to put them in a good sector where they are not directly in competition with other food production factories or you may not see the desired npc traffic you want.

as for the calculator, always start with your end product and work your way backwards when planning your closed loop complex, because the calculator itself will fill in the missing points and you only then need the stations to fill in the rest of the demand.

if you decide to do factories based on equipment like shields, guns and missiles, be aware that after a point of trading, the demand will instantly stop and you got factories at full capacities because all the stations around the entire x game universe is fully stocked with these things you produced. now it will be useful later on when you got your own system and phq, that is when you can build lots of new ships and arm them accordingly but you shouldn't be building a massive network of these types of stations despite the profits you get.

the one reliable way of making money is by producing stuff an economy is desperately short of as far as materials are concerned rather than a finished product. that way you make the biggest profits you can.

after almost 500 hours of play, just a few pointers.

[Wat]

2 Silicon Mine L (combined 75 yield)
3 Cattle Ranch L
3 Cahoona Bakery L
3 Crystal Fab L
1 Solar Power Plant XL (150% sun strength)

or

2 Silicon Mine L (combined 100 yield)
4 Cattle Ranch L
4 Cahoona Bakery L
4 Crystal Fab L
1 Solar Power Plant XL (450% sun strength)

Those are the minimum for a closed loop complex, using the largest size of each factory. With this setup you will have a small surplus of Silicon Wafers and Crystals and a large surplus of Energy Cells. And no deficit of any product.

Not very profitable though. I usually go for semi-open loops targeting a high-end product instead.

Edit (with less Silicon Wafers and Crystals, and more Energy Cells):
1 Silicon Mine L (60 yield)
2 Cattle Ranch L
1 Cattle Ranch M
2 Cahoona Bakery L
1 Cahoona Bakery M
2 Crystal Fab L
1 Crystal Fab M
1 Solar Power Plant XL (150% sun strength)

[Xautos]

Originally posted by Wat:

2 Silicon Mine L (combined 75 yield)
3 Cattle Ranch L
3 Cahoona Bakery L
3 Crystal Fab L
1 Solar Power Plant XL (150% sun strength)

or

2 Silicon Mine L (combined 100 yield)
4 Cattle Ranch L
4 Cahoona Bakery L
4 Crystal Fab L
1 Solar Power Plant XL (450% sun strength)

Those are the minimum for a closed loop complex, using the largest size of each factory. With this setup you will have a small surplus of Silicon Wafers and Crystals and a large surplus of Energy Cells. And no deficit of any product.

Not very profitable though. I usually go for semi-open loops targeting a high-end product instead.

that depends on where you setup, how rich the asteroids are and the value of the sun, there only a few systems that have 450% sun strength though.

so consider just as carefully where you set up and the various sun and asteroid values.

[Wat]

Originally posted by Xautos:

that depends on where you setup, how rich the asteroids are and the value of the sun, there only a few systems that have 450% sun strength though.

so consider just as carefully where you set up and the various sun and asteroid values.

I usually leave mines and solar power plants disconnected from complexes, in an semi-open loop setup, so the complexes stay independent from sun strength and asteroid yields.

[Xautos]

Originally posted by zanosg:

Originally posted by Wat:

I usually leave mines and solar power plants disconnected from complexes, in an semi-open loop setup, so the complexes stay independent from sun strength and asteroid yields.

So you cart energy cells to you complexes?

it depends where you setup with 450% sun and where the end point is, if it's over multiple systems incuding a pirate sector, the chances are that some strong protection for the trade ships are needed but even then you may still lose trade ships to an opportune pirate attack.

if you got the gate hub, it is much simpler to cart those cells, crystals and minerals across through the gate hub to the other side, even if one and the other were at the opposite sides of the x3 galaxy. so long as they are safe areas and you are not connected to any other risky systems by the hub, then it's a painless process.

[Xautos]

Also another thing i forgot to add is when building a half complex, you should plan out what you want where and what the end product from one half complex that the other half needs, for example if one side is looking for crystals, you could spend a lot more building up that network only to find out that the half complex is very costly to produce, prohibitvily so. however if that same complex is instead producing energy cells for another half complex, you may not need anywhere near as much

also the costs of stations between the races is also a factor, for example Argon Solar XL's are worth 19m to buy one, where as Boron and Terran Solar XL's are both worth 17m. so shopping around for these could save you enough to buy another station later on. also when dealing with the demand for crystals, pick the right crystal fab otherwise you will end up needing to deal with dietary requirements of the workers of different races like Bofu for Boron, MRE's for Terrans or meatsteaks for Argon for example. so you will need to setup a network that works towards that end.

a suggestion is to find a compromise as far as a system is concerned, one that fits 300% sun strength at the very least while providing a great deal of resources. an example would be Aldrin and Megnir in the Terran sectors or Spires of Elusion or CEO's Wellspring that are in remote Boron and Teladi sectors. best for a start to find something to make a lot of money from and the gatehub before you consider it.

also it would be helpful to have a tractor beam so you can move the asteroids into a position that works instead of having a rickety looking complex. the more presentable it is and the less pipes that run around the complex, the better it looks and the less hazard it would pose to traders.

[Xautos]

Originally posted by zanosg:

Originally posted by Xautos:

also the costs of stations between the races is also a factor, for example Argon Solar XL's are worth 19m to buy one, where as Boron and Terran Solar XL's are both worth 17m. so shopping around for these could save you enough to buy another station later on. also when dealing with the demand for crystals, pick the right crystal fab otherwise you will end up needing to deal with dietary requirements of the workers of different races like Bofu for Boron, MRE's for Terrans or meatsteaks for Argon for example. so you will need to setup a network that works towards that end.

You really havent used that complex calculator, have you.

the x adrian one and another one? yeah i have. do you have a point to make?

[Xautos]

Originally posted by zanosg:

Originally posted by Xautos:

the x adrian one and another one? yeah i have. do you have a point to make?

The X adrian one. If you use it properly you dont have to worry about prices because it selects the cheapest stations by itself.

i prefer manual input on the whole thing because even with a worked out calculator, it's unable to deal with even the requirement of silicone wafers both to a complex and in creating a complex around it and especially half complexes. in other words, it's not that useful.

[Xautos]

Originally posted by zanosg:

Originally posted by Xautos:

i prefer manual input on the whole thing because even with a worked out calculator, it's unable to deal with even the requirement of silicone wafers both to a complex and in creating a complex around it and especially half complexes. in other words, it's not that useful.

Im a little confused. You can add Silicon and Ore Mines in X Adrian and it will calculate everything for you. Are you saying that it doesnt calculate it right even after adding Mines?

i am saying it should be added by default.