When will Stormgate be ready?

[Tazor]

The entirety of Warcraft 3 Reign of Chaos was made in about 3 years. That's the entire ROC campaign, cutscenes, skirmish mode, multiplayer and world editor for custom content. While obviously not having access to the modern tech of today.

There were 2 years between the release of Diablo 2 and Warcraft 3. We can assume that they have been lightly working on the side on Warcraft 3 for about 1 year while going full steam ahead on Diablo 2. If you don't want to assume that, then the game was made in just 2 years.

Now. What does Stormgate have to offer after about 3 and a half years using modern tech? Doesn't look like much. Yes. That is the current development time it had so far.

It was announced in June 2022. By extrapolating we can assume that they have been working on it for about 1 year since June 2021 in order to have SOMETHING to show. Fast forward to February 2025 and that's 3 and a half years.



So. When will Stormgate be ready while having access to all the technological superiority of today?

[Rikkmaery]

Diablo 2 was made by a completely separate studio known as Blizzard North while the main Blizzard began WC3 some time after they released the Broodwar expansion for StarCraft in 1998, and then released in 2002, with about 3 and a half years of time.

Starcraft 2 meanwhile began development in 2003, and was not shown to the public until 2007, and then after a lot of overtime and crunch, they delivered Wings of Liberty in 2010.

Should it come as any surprise that a game trying to surpass much of Starcraft 2's very dated and limited underlying tech might take longer to put together than Warcraft 3? Considering the progress they have made, they are managing to be on par if not faster than Starcraft 2's development, while also pushing under the hood tech that prior RTS games haven't been built with. Should we say it is a shame that God of War's chapters might take months to build and polish while Half-Life built the entire tentacle pit section overnight?

[Delirio]

I get your point OP but making games nowadays takes a lot longer even if we have better development tools, because modern games are infinitely more complex compared to those made more than 20 years ago.

[Tazor]

Originally posted by Delirio:

I get your point OP but making games nowadays takes a lot longer even if we have better development tools, because modern games are infinitely more complex compared to those made more than 20 years ago.

I don't understand what "infinitely more complex" even means. They are not designing a complex game here. It is quite literally a Warcraft 3/ Starcraft 2 clone. By their own admission.

We have access to infinitely better tools. Better game engines. Know how. Experienced devs. Modern hardware. A model game to follow.

The big thing about Unreal Engine is that it claims to offer a lot of tools that make game development easier, even for inexperienced devs.

In theory, development should be faster now. But we're not even on par with how it was 20 years ago. It is actually slower somehow. MUCH slower. At the rate this is going, we will be lucky if this thing reaches completion after a total of 10 years in development.

The whole game feels like a crowdfunded money laundering scheme imo.

[Abyssus_j]

Originally posted by Tazor:

I don't understand what "infinitely more complex" even means. They are not designing a complex game here. It is quite literally a Warcraft 3/ Starcraft 2 clone. By their own admission.

I've given up trying to rationalise these fervently positive posts that have no bearing on state of the game. Its got to be staff or something.

[ChillFlame]

"infinitely more complex"
That's just a default game dev excuse. Usually used by Ubisoft, Bethesda, and other beloved devs and publishers.

In the '80s and early '90s, games were made using an unholy amalgamation of symbolic machine code and alcohol.

Devs had been drawing level layouts on paper and transferring them in the game tile by tile.

In the late '90s, a lot of isometric games used digitized real-life photos to make realistic ground textures.

SC1, Fallout 1,2, and a lot of other games made ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ clay figurines. Then they made in-game sprites and models out of it without a 3D redactor.

These games had ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ vision, dedication, and professionalism.
FG has the best tools in the ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ video game history, but all they make is broken promises and excuses.

[ChillFlame]

1997-1999 https://imgur.com/a/IfaakU3
2024 "Savior of the RTS genre" https://imgur.com/a/8z9B1QK
Yes, that's just because games are harder to make nowadays.

[Maraxus]

And those amazing graphics were pre-rendered 3d graphics turned into sprites. Nowadays 3d tools are so much better and even free like Blender. I love of the reels out there of artists giving the same base scene their own spin.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mIDlU_sKto0
Just take a look at Tempest Rising and see what's possible with modern tech in a similar amount of time, and most likely less budget, for an rts.

In short, no excuse.

[Rikkmaery]

Tempest Rising has a larger team and started development in 2019 after first being conceptualized in 2014. Please do some damn research instead of running your mouth.

[Maraxus]

Was their budget over 40 million dollars?

The team wasn't that much larger either.

It doesn't excuse SG for looking like a 1 and TR like a 9,

[Rikkmaery]

100 people is a bit bigger than 60 people, and that difference ammounts to a lot over time.

If Stormgate was planning to release this spring like Tempest Rising, I might agree with you, but this is comparing a game that is almost done to a game still well underway. What is your point except to put Stormgate down? Also calling it a 1 is pretty damn hyperbole because we both damn well know there are some outright horrible looking games out there.


lets enjoy how far games can come over the course of their development instead of trying to be the mindless masses who thing games always look finished as soon as they start development.
https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/starcraft/images/e/e0/Zergalpha.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20080113172212

[Maraxus]

Still no mention of the budget discrepancy or how people using open source software, are making vastly better art than FG, many times for free.

Look at those models, it is a 1 from an artistic standpoint, no amount of Unreal bling can hide it.

Putting SG down? It is reality, it is FG that is trying to present SG as something that it is not.

Also funny you say lets enjoy all games when it's FG and fans who pretend TR doesn't exist. :)

[Rikkmaery]

Who is pretending TR doesn't exist? And what budget discrepancy is there to talk about between a public number and a number that has never been given? We do not know the tools TR has used.

If you really want to like TR so much, then consider that the lead, Wayward, is a big Stormgate Celestial fan :)

[ChillFlame]

Originally posted by Rikkmaery:

lets enjoy how far games can come over the course of their development instead of trying to be the mindless masses who thing games always look finished as soon as they start development.
cb=20080113172212

Publicly released. Not started the development.
If the game is publicly released and charging money, it will be treated as a released game.
If you don't want this, release the game when it's ready.
This is reality. Things will appear rather unfair until you accept reality.

[DON~ILYA]

TR devs aren't Blizzard veterans though... If you pay yourself Blizzard salaries - be ready to deliver Blizzard quality or something close to that. Otherwise you might run out of money before the game is finished.

This is honestly embarrassing when you compare SG to games like The Scouring. Turns out it's possible to create a nice-looking RTS without Marvel celebrities and Chainsmokers.

[Maraxus]

Originally posted by Rikkmaery:

Who is pretending TR doesn't exist? And what budget discrepancy is there to talk about between a public number and a number that has never been given? We do not know the tools TR has used.

If you really want to like TR so much, then consider that the lead, Wayward, is a big Stormgate Celestial fan :)

You evade the budget topic because you know it's extremely unlikely any rts(beyond perhaps sc2) cost over 40m to make.

I have seen Wayward talk in your disc and being completely and rudely ignored. :)

I have also seen completely harmless TR threads here and in reddit being removed without reason.

They also never mention it on interviews, but mention others rts.

Also this... is... hilarious.
https://i.imgur.com/vFvJhpS.png

For all the "lets support all rts" talk, they seem suspiciously silent about TR... and the reason is obvious... it embarrasses them. :)

But lets ignore all that for a moment. Nowadays, artists are creating amazing 3d art that brims with creativity, even for free. Yet SG is stuck with all these ugly models, the question is, what were their artists doing these last 3 years?