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I also do not deny that there could be some interesting concepts from MOBAs that could be brought to rts. But I don't care to talk about it if I am pointlessly getting baited.
Day9 tried to make a MOBA inspired rts and didn't go anywhere... he is setting up a new team for a new game, I wonder what lessons will he have learned.
Tempest Rising bro... I am glad it is coming out. That's the kind of project I would like to see more in the future, so I am supporting it 150%! Also it is a 10000x much saner production than SG. I feel SG has really left a lot of people traumatized.
Also this image is damn hilarious and says quite a bit(look at bottom):
https://i.imgur.com/vFvJhpS.png
Stormgate has created a lot of controversy and left bad taste in the mouth. We're all a bit rattled. Rts is looking good I like the new indie and AA titles coming out. Can't keep waiting on this dumpster fire.
Lol at the imgur...
That img is golden. xD
But here is the thing back when I was playing SC2 a ton, I was also quick to anger and would unload on people, and I saw the same thing with many people who played. Then I started researching and turns out online competitive games in general have that effect on people. So I understand, I make fun of it now, but yeah I guess when you are "in the moment" You don't realize how the stress is affecting you and in turn affecting others. You can get in the cycle of game -> vent -> game, etc. And before you know it a discussion becomes a crazy competition like the game. I think that's one of the reasons why SC2 general chat is like that. lol Sometimes it's good to just take a moment to wind down and reflect. It's even worse now with phones/notifications and being engaged online all the time. Omg even Elon Musk had a spat with ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ Asmongold over a video game LOL.
SG is just.... ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ man, I just don't have words. But yeah you are right, time goes on and new things come up. I guess we will see. But you have been top bloke though, gotta say. xD
I do. Monk in his interviews talked a lot about fixing issues that players had with SC2 and WC3. They promised to deal with deathballing, and initially it looked like they are onto something. But with every patch things were getting worse and worse. They promised units with higher skill ceiling without relying on abilities too heavily. The best they came up with is copy-pasting stutter micro and tankivacs. And what about territory control? More skill expression in terms of macro? The list goes on. If you implement at least 10% of what they promised you'll get SC3. And closer to 100% you might skip an entire generation and deliver SC4 right away.
What are you even talking about? Across many comments I bring up the point that BW, WC3, SC2 have rudimentary base-building. That's why it's boring. I also say BA is not for me because it removes base-building completely, which is the best part of RTS. Instead of relying on BW elitists to understand my point - just read my messages. Because right now you are attacking a strawman.
Stormgate's macro is equally uninspired and simplistic. The concept of therium looked promising, but they did nothing with it. 20+ years ago, when players were less experienced, it'd work nicely. By modern standards it feels like playing tic-tac-toe. The "hard to master" part is completely missing.
Infernals' macro is the best example. It's literally zerg macro from SC2 without the requirement to do injects. So they took a simple thing and simplified it even more. I guess it's nice for casuals, but hardcore players have no reason to be happy.
Oh yeah I've had my episodes of rage quitting and chat/emote spamming throughout the years. You see that kind of beefing in real life sports too and teams have to break it up.
https://m.youtube.com/shorts/TRFqYJdYZRQ
All in all NBA is pretty chill regarding beefs comapred to like rugby union or soccer. Competitive gaming and sports is just really stressful. The advantage and disadvantage of esports is there is no referee or replays for a lot of niggly technical fouls and stuff. So the action is nonstop and continuously requires high actions.
You're dead right about being the cycle of adrenaline and testosterone. Like, we keep going because we don't want to lose the high. It is good to take a break from it.
I've lost my temper on more than a few occasions reading or posting things related to Stormgate. I could see that's what was happening between you guys.
Kids and teenagers growing up using all this social media and online stuff have to deal with that a lot and that's why they have all sorts of mental issues.
Cheers man. Speaking from my own experience I've been to some dark places. Like, really dark, I won't go into it. But eventually I clicked with certain people who helped me. I'm just paying that forward. Sometimes just being listened to can go a long way. Very long way.
I'm still learning about myself and trying to figure all this stuff out. It makes you think about life and if it's worth playing games that suck the fun out of everything or being angry on the internet.
I still wonder why we keep coming back to these ♥♥♥♥♥♥ stormgate channels...
I feel like we're all being trolled. It's like a $40 million prank lol.
They were never going to increase the skill expression macro by a huge amount. What did you expect? The game has like 2 resources lol? That's what Blizzard games are known for, simplistic macro. That's on you. Go play Age of empires 4 for expanded macro and base building.
You also just ignored how 75% of the game is supposed to be made for blizzard and older rts style gamers.
How can you skip SC3 and deliver SC4? This is borderline trolling.
We're coming at it from two very different points of view. Like I see now you're a hardcore and competitive gamer who sometimes plays RTS but don't care much for these old games and remasters. I'm pretty much a casual who loved playing Blizzard RTS, occasionally playing and watching competitive.
That is exactly what the rts genre has been complaining about for YEARS. Literally listening to the 5-10% 1v1 esports and adrenaline junkies that want the game pandered to them at the expense of all the other modes that 80% of people actually play like campaign and skirmish and team games and custom maps. It leads to failures like Dawn of War 3.
How am I attacking and strawmanning?
I literally can't argue with you because you're so confusing.
I'm not combing through pages of fuming internet debates to understand your point of view.
I think you have a gaming addiction or mental health problem and need to take a break. And I've been there! Railing against 25 years of RTS game design on a game marketed as a spiritual successor to SC2, WC3, BW isn't going anywhere.
And I honestly didn't get that bothered by your reddit posts.
Social media and live service games are really ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ with people, it is all about keeping people engaged all the time, about maximizing monetization, etc and it's affecting people's minds. People play games to have fun, to live the "fantasy" of the particular genre. The "best" games now don't have an end, they are not necessarily fun, they are designed to keep you engaged all the time while taking your money away with microtransactions that many times are akin to gambling. All the big social media sites competing in the attention economy. That's why I like Larian, at some point they even said, "don't play our game too much, take breaks, it's ok for games to have an end, etc". I miss that about old games, they were designed to be fun first and foremost, they were awesome self contained experiences, with interesting mechanics that made sense in their respective incredible settings, they respected your time and your mental health. Larian is a return to that, and many things I feel have been lost in gaming. Actually it is because of Larian that I stopped online gaming in general back when I started playing their games. Nowadays if I am not having fun I just don't play. Tempest Rising is the closest rts equivalent to that imo.
You seem like a cool dude, I definitely need to do that self reflecting and learn more self control, but it is hard. Listening to people, perhaps we should do that in order to learn more about ourselves, indeed. To not forget about the human side.
SG simply doesn't seem to be designed to be fun. It seems to be designed to be competitive in the most dull possible way imaginable, with elements to catch as many people from of all sort of disparate games and genres as possible. It truly is an aberration lol.
At some point in going back and forth about complexity I realized: but wait... none of this is fun, why are we not having fun when talking about a game?
Why indeed, SG has been one of the ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ gaming experiences I have had, and I have only played for 1.5 hours lol. Are we masochists? xD
Didn't mention BW, I said WC3 and SC2. FG in their interviews say the exact same thing. Surprised you have no issue with that when it comes from devs themselves. Deathballing is, obviously, more prominent in SC2 because of several design choices. But armies in WC3 are also overly centralized.
Regardless, what's your point? FG promised to fix deathballing and failed to do so. Not only that, they were moving in the opposite direction.
I expected them to keep the promise and increase skill expression in macro by ANY amount. Or at least have it at the same level as an already simple macro of SC2, not simplify it even more.
I didn't ignore that. But it's not my problem how FG are gonna deliver on all the promises they've made. I focus on the aspects that are important to me.
Stop pretending you didn't understand what I mean.
These complaints are popular in other genres too. And despite all that FG decided to push the game in that direction. They literally marketed the game to the hardcore audience, and now you are upset about hardcore players holding devs accountable for their own words. Would make more sense to channel the resent towards the company that created this situation in the first place.
By misrepresenting my point of view and saying "oh, thought you are a hardcore player, maybe you should play Battle Aces". When all my previous messages are about how I want the game to be more complex.
I think you are hiding your lack of argument behind toxic and condescending behaviour.