devs reviewing their own game?

[AgustinAbadi]

look, i could forget about bad launches, but manipulating steam reviews is a dark stain that stormgate will never get clean.
were you out of your mind?!
a bad release could be saved, but this anti consumer review manipulation is just anti consumer.
i still can't believe they have so little hope on their own game, that some devs have to organize and fake reviews to manipulate the scores.
shameful, they should be fired at least, this breaks every goodwill on the "developer-gamer" relationship. reviews are from gamers to other gamers, if devs want to talk about their game they should do a blog post.
this is so bad, wrong and bad.

[Maraxus]

I have to say Dark Crusade has completely impressed me, I can't believe I skipped it for so long lol. I am not sure if Necrons are op but after a certain point the regular missions were easy if you had a big enough honor guard. But then the Stronghold missions were brutal. 😂 The graphics still slap, it's insane, the worst part is the low res ground textures but even then it impresses in some parts(particularly liked the lava tileset), for a 3d game of that era that's insane. DoW2 graphics are also great... I haven't finished DoW2 campaign but i hear the multiplayer is completely dfifferent? More like a regular RTS, haven't tried it yet. DoW3 looks like a moba tbh lol. Company of Heroes 1 and 2 still look great too... relic was something else.

Larian is an old studio that struggled with scummy publishers for a long time, in some interviews Swen tells the story of how at some point he couldn't afford gas because he put it all into the studio. I think they didn't have a huge hit until they said ♥♥♥♥ it and went independent with DOS1 and risked absolutely everything. I am still waiting for the Larian equivalent of RTS lol, interestingly Larian's first game was an rts back in the 90s and Swen is a huge starcraft and strategy fan so who knows... can you imagine a contemporary Larian rts? 😮
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=trSxzvKXiCI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iIJdZ_ySrwU

[Spartan dropkick]

Originally posted by Maraxus:

I have to say Dark Crusade has completely impressed me, I can't believe I skipped it for so long lol. I am not sure if Necrons are op but after a certain point the regular missions were easy if you had a big enough honor guard. But then the Stronghold missions were brutal. 😂 The graphics still slap, it's insane, the worst part is the low res ground textures but even then it impresses in some parts(particularly liked the lava tileset), for a 3d game of that era that's insane. DoW2 graphics are also great... I haven't finished DoW2 campaign but i hear the multiplayer is completely dfifferent? More like a regular RTS, haven't tried it yet. DoW3 looks like a moba tbh lol. Company of Heroes 1 and 2 still look great too... relic was something else.

Larian is an old studio that struggled with scummy publishers for a long time, in some interviews Swen tells the story of how at some point he couldn't afford gas because he put it all into the studio. I think they didn't have a huge hit until they said ♥♥♥♥ it and went independent with DOS1 and risked absolutely everything. I am still waiting for the Larian equivalent of RTS lol, interestingly Larian's first game was an rts back in the 90s and Swen is a huge starcraft and strategy fan so who knows... can you imagine a contemporary Larian rts? 😮
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=trSxzvKXiCI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iIJdZ_ySrwU

Yes, necrons are OP in DC lol. Someone commented that DoW2's aesthetics were better than Stormgate. The multiplayer was like a baseless CoH and pre selected heroes that you level up. You might say the moba influence started there. Just they tried too hard in DoW3 by having no victory points and opting for power core mode only.
There's a lot of games in my backlog I wish I played earlier but I'm not gaming much currently, just mainly following this one. Like, a couple I haven't played would be homeworld or half life.
Sheesh they really cameback strong from the financial struggles.
Interesting to see Swen is a big fan of wow and starcraft. To the point his child has a gaming addiction. Oh god, haha. Maybe we could get a Larian RTS? 😮

[Maraxus]

Yeah Necrons are like a slow moving menace but once they get there nothing can stop them specially if they have a monolith teleporting everywhere lol. After a certain point only the eldar gave me trouble in regular missions, they'd move really quickly around the map capturing points and it was hard to chase them down. 😂

I wonder why innovation cannot happen within the rts design space, why everyone goes to MOBA eventually lol. Homeworld and half-life are great, both have minimalist storytelling that is extremely effective.

FG comparing themselves to Larian is embarassing, but tbf Larian embarrasses most of the industry at this point.

You know I wish one of Larian's 2 upcoming games was an rts to show everyone that you don't need pro-gamers or ex-blizz devs, celebrities, aggressive astroturfing, microtransactions, fortnite graphics, nostalgia bait, etc to make a great rts. All you need studios like Larian that passionately still want to make games in the old style.

[Spartan dropkick]

Originally posted by Maraxus:

Yeah Necrons are like a slow moving menace but once they get there nothing can stop them specially if they have a monolith teleporting everywhere lol. After a certain point only the eldar gave me trouble in regular missions, they'd move really quickly around the map capturing points and it was hard to chase them down. 😂

I wonder why innovation cannot happen within the rts design space, why everyone goes to MOBA eventually lol. Homeworld and half-life are great, both have minimalist storytelling that is extremely effective.

FG comparing themselves to Larian is embarassing, but tbf Larian embarrasses most of the industry at this point.

You know I wish one of Larian's 2 upcoming games was an rts to show everyone that you don't need pro-gamers or ex-blizz devs, celebrities, aggressive astroturfing, microtransactions, fortnite graphics, nostalgia bait, etc to make a great rts. All you need studios like Larian that passionately still want to make games in the old style.

Ah, monoliths. Necrons did feel like a slow wave of death race. Or deathless machines. They nailed it.
Why innovation cannot happen in rts design space? That's a good question. In hindsight I see a lot of attempts to revolutionise the genre like age 3 card system, SC2 NPCs on the ship, or the DOW2 diablo-esque loot. But they end up going backwards and ditching those in sequels or changing to an entirely different project.
For whatever reason I think skillshots are not well liked by RTS players. It feels too moba-like.

100%. We'll see what's in the woodworks for Larian. After the Dreamhaven reveal... yeah... idk, lol.

[Maraxus]

Yeah DoW doesn't seem that great balanced but it's greatly fun lol, makes me question what is more important, balance or fun. Though Blizzard's "easy to learn, hard to master" philosophy worked well, it seems modern devs have given up(or don't have the ability) to replicate it, they make completely different modes instead of one continuous, scalable difficulty curve that applies to every mode. That also has another disadvantage, right? It fractures the playerbase, each believing that their mode is the best and demand their piece gets more content than the others. Look at sc1, age2, are people divided? No, because no matter whether you are playing campaign, or teams or 1v1, you are playing essentially with the same units and under the same rules, if you are familiar with one mode, you can apply everything you know to the others.
I think one of Blizzard's founders, Allen Adham explains it well in this vid @9:53.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aHVC019NbPo
sc, wc3, age2 are like chess, is easy to learn but hard to master. It seems to me with Stormgate, they are trying to make chess, checkers, connect 4 and bingo at the same time. xD

I imagine because on top of all the army and econ management, skillshots add an extra level of difficulty... if I think of spellcasters back to sc and wc the non targetable spells weren't really that easy to miss because they landed on a huge area(snare, plague, EMP).

I think there are tons of ways to expand the classic rts formula, for example, what if the map has multiple layers, like heroes of might and magic, I think a dnd rts actually tried that but it wasn't that popular, but it doesn't mean it can't be done better. https://www.gog.com/en/game/dungeons_dragons_dragonshard

Also graphically, before sc2 came out I imagined in the next sc game when creep reached a cliff it would slowly drip down like cream on a cake. In space if you used a nydus worm from one platform to another you could see the worm traveling through space. These kind of things, cool new touches, missed opportunities.

Also what about dynamic maps? Maps that have moving pieces. What if there is a map that is a giant, slowly rotating disc? What if there are multiple elevation levels(including underground). What if the disc is composed of multiple sections, each rotating at different speeds and in different directions? What if the players could control the speed and direction by controlling some part of the map? To hell with spawn positions, make everything relative and ever changing? Maybe it's a giant puzzle made by the xel-naga?

Also missed on adding a 4th race, xel'naga being the obvious choice, perhaps it could have been a race like the necrons. Even slower and more powerful than protoss, I guess the creativity had ran out by then.

Bruh, Larian showed modern obsidian/bioware how it's done, I don't think it's much of a stretch to think they could show modern blizzard/ex blizzard how it's done. GGG already showing them how to do diablo. xD Back then Blizzard games were truly thought-provoking and inspiring, now they inspire me to go to sleep lol.

[Spartan dropkick]

That's a very good philosophy to have. A continuous bread and butter game where the skills transfer across the various game modes. The game is essentially fixed and it's just changing the team size or objectives, like social basketball, the court and ball are the same.
Making 1v1 chess then coop or teams checkers just adds more workload and makes life harder on themselves too. Ever heard of chess boxing lol? It's alternating rounds of chess then boxing. You can do it but it's pretty niche.

Yeah, maybe it's too much micro on top of the base building and eco. I think it also gets bloody difficult to dodging skill shots when you are juggling an army and bases over just the single unit.

I played a bit of dragonshard. I like the idea of the underground. In practise I found switching between layers a hassle.

Bruh, you have a wild imagination, haha 😲Creep dripping like cake is literally oozing with flavour. A rotating disc level? That would be crazy.
Idk if RTS genre needs that to sell as of right now. That would make a memorable moment.
I think devs, especially veterans now who have been in corporate positions, should rediscover the fun in games. Like dawn of war voice lines and the amount of personality put into them. Like, if voice actors are having fun and chewing on the scenery, players will probably have fun too.
WITNESS YOUR DOOOOOM!!

I have had so many ideas for the genre. I will list off a handful of them because I could be here all day. I also see many missed opportunities. I can't remember anything crazy like yours but I had plans for entirely new campaigns or expansions in the past.

What about a race of battle monks?
What if a game with heroes like warcraft 3 had skill trees not just 4 preset ones?
What if they added naga to multiplayer for Reforged?
What if you had more rpg dialogues and quests for the SC2 ship parts?
Or buildings had scalable sizes, like dungeon keeper?
Starcraft with water maps?
What if Blizzard style games have procedural maps?

I think, honestly, the genre had many innovations and bold ideas. It's a shame they did not stick.
The goo in Grey Goo totally stripped out base building and they can traverse up over the terrain. It's awkward to play but pretty creative.
CoH3 has a total war style meta map.

You're not gonna see that from Blizzard or FG anymore. Ironically, the 3v3 moba mode for stormgate is another stab at reducing the barrier to entry kind of like dawn of war 3. In theory, placing the win condition outside of destroying your base could make it more accessible. In practise, we'll see... probably nobody playing it.
Battle Acies wants to strip down RTS to the core fun by removing base building. That is the fun, you donkies. Why is it so hard to go back to basics?

[Maraxus]

Yeah, imo having and being able to make diverse maps is one of the main attractions and differentiators of RTS games. MOBA's are only played in a single map, Battle Aces also having a single map and removing base building is obviously the wrong direction. I imagine a next-gen rts would double down on the ability to not just make new maps, but new categories of maps. The most obvious additions would be multiple layers and maps that with changing features/terrain over time. I think, given the right tools, map makers could take this to some crazy levels. There is this old psx game called Blast Chambers, where players battled in a cube and it was hilarious to change the orientation of the cube lol. It's sad to see the trend towards less battlefield variety.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hmz0YDFhOwI
My main issue with SC2 was that after the explosion of features and ideas we saw in WC3 compared to it's predecessors, I was expecting something similar for SC2 but instead, it felt more like BW 1.5. :/ I think the focus on e-sports made it so they had to play safe, don't change things too much, don't go overboard with crazy stuff, but that is precisely what people love lol.

What if they added naga to multiplayer for Reforged?

Yeah I think they could have been a subfaction of another race. Like Terrans could have UED/Dominion/Raynor's Rebellion. The protoss: Dark/High templars. Zerg: Overmind/Kerrigan broods, etc. In fact I think COH1 did that and Age of Empires 4 is now doing it too with civilization variants.

We definitely need new ideas, some might fail but I guess it's the only way to push things forward. Even though I am not a age4 fan I am kinda interested to see what they will do in their second DLC lol.

Scalable buildings! Never thought about that for rts lol. But it's a cool idea, in fact it could be part of a whole faction's identity. Like zerg being able to swell and shrink their buildings?

There is a game called Spellforce that is a mix of rpg and rts, their characters have tech trees just like in wow. It's interesting, haven't gotten that far along in it though apparently some people really like the multiplayer.
https://store.steampowered.com/app/311290/SpellForce_3_Reforced/
Fleshing out the ship parts would have been cool too. Overall I think the SC2 campaign missions were cool gameplay wise but multiplayer, storywise and in terms of expanding the setting, the game could have been so much better.

Also it's kinda crazy but I never imagined it'd be possible to bond over SG's colossal mismanagement lol.

[KingOfFriedChicken]

Originally posted by c0hKaine:

Originally posted by ChillFlame:

https://imgur.com/a/GKvjhob
FG admitted it.

"Please bear with us as we sort this out" theres nothing to sort out. This was borne out of the company's philosophy, value, and integrity or lack thereof completely. the funny part is they didn't even bother hiding it. well i guess you cant drum up a bridge to nowhere to venture capitalist money if your current trajectory is considered 39% effective or worse. when you're too stupid to be evil this is what it looks like.

Honestly? I respect them more for not trying to hide it and addressing it. Altough I don't know the context around it, most devs would ignore it Honestly.

[ChillFlame]

Originally posted by KingOfFriedChicken:

Originally posted by c0hKaine:

"Please bear with us as we sort this out" theres nothing to sort out. This was borne out of the company's philosophy, value, and integrity or lack thereof completely. the funny part is they didn't even bother hiding it. well i guess you cant drum up a bridge to nowhere to venture capitalist money if your current trajectory is considered 39% effective or worse. when you're too stupid to be evil this is what it looks like.

Honestly? I respect them more for not trying to hide it and addressing it. Altough I don't know the context around it, most devs would ignore it Honestly.

They admitted it only after wr caught them with proof.
Also with this message they tried to hide their coordinated actions behind the "well-intentioned employee" ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ to shift the responsibility.
After being caught with proof again they admitted that their CEO was involved.

[KingOfFriedChicken]

Originally posted by ChillFlame:

Originally posted by KingOfFriedChicken:

Honestly? I respect them more for not trying to hide it and addressing it. Altough I don't know the context around it, most devs would ignore it Honestly.

They admitted it only after wr caught them with proof.
Also with this message they tried to hide their coordinated actions behind the "well-intentioned employee" ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ to shift the responsibility.
After being caught with proof again they admitted that their CEO was involved.

I see i see, that's not a particularly good look then, and they kinda need all the good faith in customers they can get at the moment.

[ChillFlame]

Originally posted by KingOfFriedChicken:

Originally posted by ChillFlame:

They admitted it only after wr caught them with proof.
Also with this message they tried to hide their coordinated actions behind the "well-intentioned employee" ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ to shift the responsibility.
After being caught with proof again they admitted that their CEO was involved.

I see i see, that's not a particularly good look then, and they kinda need all the good faith in customers they can get at the moment.

Yeah, they had a lot of RTS fans respect at the start.
I don't see how involment in all these scandals was worth it.
just be the "good guys", make your game. Fans will buy it even if it's not the best RTS around.

[Spartan dropkick]

LoL had 3v3 and a different game mode but closed them down because people stopped playing them. The ARAM is cool for quick, shorts rounds and wasn't competitive. Plus there were limited time special modes like ultra rapid fire where you had zero cool downs and infinite mana. I think.
I think RTS could introduce those ideas as less competitive side modes to add more variety. Something like short cool downs on super powers in a CNC game. Or L6 starting heroes for wc3.

Haha, I have no idea what is going on in blast chambers but it's funny. I thought about one of those party games like Crash Bash.

Yeah they did publicly say they played it safe for SC2 because of diehard Korean fans and esports, who were giving them death threats over changing BW too much. It worked out pretty successfully.
Warcraft 3 is a one of a kind RTS that will never happen again because of WoW. So unless they turn an RTS game into MMO again, I don't see it happening with any other game.
Map makers usually take the engine and do crazy things with the vanilla games. It's a pity SC2 modding was so restricted.

I have spellforce 3 but haven't played it far yet. I liked what I played so far.

Originally posted by Maraxus:

Also it's kinda crazy but I never imagined it'd be possible to bond over SG's colossal mismanagement lol.

Neither lol.
But Reforged was absolutely devastating. Imho, far worse than SG because they gutted and broke an existing game and community. I saw WC3 champions form out of that dumpster fire. The community did a better job than the devs and brought back some hope for me. I wonder if Grubby will be streaming it 10 years from now lol.
Stormgate is yet another dumpster fire.
Sorry to FG. I don't think the community will save it this time.

[Spartan dropkick]

Originally posted by ChillFlame:

Originally posted by KingOfFriedChicken:

I see i see, that's not a particularly good look then, and they kinda need all the good faith in customers they can get at the moment.

Yeah, they had a lot of RTS fans respect at the start.
I don't see how involment in all these scandals was worth it.
just be the "good guys", make your game. Fans will buy it even if it's not the best RTS around.

Yeah that was only after being caught. And PR called it a goofing around like it was some april fools joke.

[Maraxus]

I mean, even though my favorite rts game is starcraft, I dunno maybe I like space stuff more than fantasy, I have to admit wc3 brought so much cool ♥♥♥♥ to the table, it is an actual disgrace that the company that made it gave it that treatment with Reforged. I can only hope they do it justice in due time, seems like 2.0 is the beginning of righting the ship, I dunno.

I don't remember the exact details but iirc, Blizzard had a feud with Kespa(korean esports association) over BW because kespa was profiting from running these extremely popular tournaments in Korea without paying any royalties to Blizzard. So Blizzard said ♥♥♥♥ it and made SC2 to have full control, but sadly even after how much Blizzard supported SC2, BW still remains more popular in Korea lol.

They also wanted to have more custom map control after the massive popularity of Dota, but somehow SC2 launched with much worse map support, editor and lobby wise. They also lost Dota2 to Valve after litigation iirc. This is when I started to see how business decisions started to compromise game vision and design. And the once great Blizzard start to lose it's luster a bit for me. Before the business decisions, as stated many times by employees and founders, was lets make the coolest most badass game possible, lol, crazy right.

A super fast mode... like blitz chess or something would be cool lol. Fastest maps were popular in BW. But I think it should have greater map variety. A single map in MOBAS I think works well because you have so much more variety in heroes anyway but in an rts with a much limited number of factions you find the variety in maps. :)

Dang I didn't know Crash Bandicoot had a party game lol, I miss playing LAN and local mp it was so much fun!

[Taebrythn]

whelp i will never support this game or scandalous games. how on earth did they think that would be smart to do their own reviews is beyond me. have they not learned from other devs who did the same thing and their credibility went out the window. they should just pack up because who will ever trust them again.

i had just saw the video showcasing the game but i always go to reviews to see what people say. well it didn't disappoint.