Infernal Tier 2 Units are meh

[Broockle]

Infernals are in a strange position I feel like. They either rush a T1 army, or get some economy with an early expansion to mass a T1 army, or they skip straight to Twighlight Spire.
It's good to get maybe 1 Magmadon but Hellborne and Weavers are super niche. When are you supposed to use them, what do they counter?

Conceptually I love the T2 units. The Magmadon is a cool take on splash damage, and combined with Weavers who can replenish Shroud on friendly units and pull them to safety which is really cool. Weavers also have their bonus damage vs armored and structured, they also shroudwalk, teleport, give highground vision and are detectors.
Hellborne on paper are also really neet units, with an interesting dmg splash which requires consideration when you micro their attacks. Consume is cool too.

But what they don't consider is that Argents and Exos exist. Weavers, and Hellborne absolutely can't do anything against the most common units from both races.
Magmadons also have it tough as they are so chonky, they could never push through a row of Lancers to actually get to the Exos, and they never survive more than a few seconds against a group of bare Argents.

I would like the idea if Infernals actually had a suboptimal unit composition like that but they're just supposed to have economical superiority so they can waste more units. But that's not the case, if anything it's actually the hardest with Infernals to mine Therium as they need to build a Shrine to mine it.
Hellborne especially are hard to mass as they are 225 therium each which is almost twice of what Atlas or Sabers cost in therium. It's kind of understandable because of how the infernals can just spawn units. But then it's also really difficult to get value from your Hellborne.

The unit that to me screams for a change the most is the Hellborne. Their damage, granted is splash, long range and targeted, so it prbly shouldn't be buffed too much. But it does feel pathetic. They also have a long animation to actually fire which get interrupted whenever their target dies before they fire. If they could just keep their projectile as long as they're stationary, that would make their damage more reliable.
And either some kind of movement ability, or a CC ability so they can actually survive some exposure. The Sabers from the Celestials have a speed boost and a self repair, can't we give the Hellborne something?
They would also really benefit if you could remove all Hellborne from the select all army hotkey, or just give 'em a siege mode. 😅

Weavers in theory are supposed to pull big units like Atlas, Vulcans or Sabers and then use their bonus damage to rek em. But their pull is so short and they're constantly blocked by their own units, the only reliable pull they can really perform is on their own units to replenish shroud.

So the changes I propose:
-Weavers can walk over all Infantry units, especially friendly ones.
-Hellborne charge their attacks to fire but only lose said charge if they move.
-Set Magmadon Trample to Autocast from start please 😆

More experimental changes:
-Hellborne get a siege ability so you can't accidentally micro them out of position and have them cause a traffic jam.
-Hellborne get a short range leap ability which can be used to micro them between shots. The leap might even bring them up and down cliffs.
-Weavers get a range upgrade for their pull ability researched in the Ritual Chamber.
-Magmadons push enemies away while they stomp so they can move through Lancers to reach the Exos for example.

Tell me what you guys think ^^

[Fudger]

Exo can tank hellborne shot for days with a medic... there's no sense of urgency when your range dps unit so tanky and has 100% uptime for shooting and running away. You literally need magmadon stun, a drop ship to actually put the magmadon in a good position, miasma, gaunt speed to have a chance vs exo lancer. Did I mention if you fail your attempt they are going to be 100% hp after 20 second? Whoever designed this must have a hardcore boner for marine marauder medic in sc2 and never played this matchup from zerg or protoss side, of needing to tech to aoe ASAP, but atleast sc2 marine are made of paper.

[Broockle]

Originally posted by Fudger:

Exo can tank hellborne shot for days with a medic...

agreed, I wasn't even considering the Medic.
Even without Medics I hardly see any dmg on those Exos from the Hellborne 😆
Exos can also micro for days with their speed and just stay out of range of everything.
The Hellborne are just so slow, have a big hitbox which causes traffic jams, and are easily out of position to be picked off by the much faster Exo ball.

Originally posted by Fudger:

You literally need magmadon stun, a drop ship to actually put the magmadon in a good position, miasma, gaunt speed to have a chance vs exo lancer. Did I mention if you fail your attempt they are going to be 100% hp after 20 second?

I never attempted a Magmadon drop as I figured it would easily be shot down.
Miasma is so late game, I never used it before. I feel like it'd be pretty hard to micro to actually get Exos in there.

Originally posted by Fudger:

Whoever designed this must have a hardcore boner for marine marauder medic

I'm actually quite happy how the Exos and Lancers micro, they are really fun to use.
Now we just need ways to deal with them 😆
The speed buff the Exos get is really crazy, and they outrange Gaunts so really they can micro Brutes and Gaunts for days. You need fiends to block off their retreat but that's really hard, and you hardly get any fiends anywhere unless you're just spamming brutes to get the fiends out.

Since Medics heal the Infest anyway it hardly matters that Infest causes damage over time. It would be far more effective I think if Infest gave Exo's a speed reduction, or maybe just an attack speed reduction.

[Fudger]

There's 2 side for a competitive game, designing it to be brain dead face roll for one side is bad for player base. Being on the exos and lancer side is obviously insanely nice vs inferno. Honestly the core problem is lancer tank gaunt so dam well because gaunt literally is a 2 for one unit, so you lose your dps way faster and your dps requires more space which isn't possible on most of the current map. Lancer isn't a problem vs celestial argent because of how the block work. Anyone that complains this match up is inferno favor needs to freaking play this from inferno side.

[Broockle]

Originally posted by Fudger:

Honestly the core problem is lancer tank gaunt so dam well because gaunt literally is a 2 for one unit, so you lose your dps way faster and your dps requires more space which isn't possible on most of the current map. .

this is a funny point. Since the armor in Stormgate is % based unlike previous Blizzard RTS games. If Lancers have % defense then theoretically it shouldn't matter if the Gaunts are 1 unit or their dps is split into 2 units.

Also Argents nook Lancers since Argents deal bonus to heavy units such as Lancers. You may have meant that but I wasn't sure with your wording.