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Both SC1 and SC2 some of the best RTS games ever made. And you don't need anyone's opinion here. Just look at the statistics.
On the other hand: Stormgate literally SC2+DOW/Demigod/WC copypaste.
Stormgate excellent alternative? There's nothing new in the game, on top of the bad sound and art design.
Also, this game has no tactics at all. You either rush or win in macro. If you are ahead in economy, you can just send units literally with A click.. It took me about 18 hours to realize how bad things are here in that regard.
But uhm... in what world does a MOBA scratch an RTS itch...?
They're completely different genres, which you actually explained well in your comment.
So why...?
The problem with SC2 is it's completely locked away from humanity, prbly forever, as it is now in the conglomerate that is Activision.
We absolutely need a new space for creators to make new maps and game modes, a new editor, a whole new distribution system. The whole shebang.
Army Size Matters. There are games like this, where you can make huge armies, mostly the spiritual successors of Total Annihilation like Supreme Commander and the most recent iteration, BAR. But that just wouldn't be a SC2 successor.
We want micro expression.
Bigger army doesn't equal better game, it just equals different game.
The bigger the army sizes the less emphasis there is on micro.
The graphics, this complaint is real. They are taking it to heart. I agree, they are still missing fidelity, but the style is exactly right I would say. To capture the audience from WC3 and SC2 going for a 3D chonky cartoony art style is not outlandish at all.
They're even listening to feedback regarding character models for ingame cutscenes.
And yes the story complaint is also common. It's very rehashy of WC3. They're likely gonna change some things on it.
Their transparency is a blessing and a curse, they are getting so much critical feedback to make a great game, but so much bad press and wrong impressions in the process.
Human kind just isn't ready for this kind of development 😅
Pacing? You can early expand if you don't want to rush creeps. I don't understand this one.
Split community.
SC2 is... well I mean it's stable but stale as heck, there's no excitement in the space. No patches, not even hopes of additional content.
With Stormgate we're getting another chance at a future of the genre. Yes there are more RTS in the space like Immortal Pyre and ZeroSpace but as far as I understand neither of them are as ambitious as Stormgate who are giving us an editor and a distribution system to make great RTS scenarios again.
I have a lot of nostalgia for RTS in this style I admit, but there's just few outlets of creativity such as these. Nearest things I can think of in the current age are games like Minecraft, Roblox, or Fortnite.
The thing with RTS games is you need an engine that deals with the path finding of units and no indie developer can really deal with that. It's very expensive to develop an engine that can handle it. So when such a tool is given to the people to do whatever they want it's very exciting to me. I think a lot of good things will come from it.
So if it wasn't obvious, I am Hype as all Heck for Stormgate 😀
AoE 4 is still killing it, new patches and updates like every couple month,
Also Age of Mythology Retold Release in a few days which is looking to be super great aswell.
Apparently AoE4 even has a campaign editor which is awesome. I might need to look up how well it works.
Try better next time.
The sound and graphics in this game are so bad, you don't even get a sliver of dopamine from playing it. One of the most 'hilarious' examples is the S.C.O.U.T dogs sound effects, it is literally barks and noises from different breeds. Honestly, I don't know why it's not even getting more attention. It is by far the worst audio I have seen in a game in my entire life. Like literally those free 30 games PC Cd's that used to come with magazines had more polish. It's beyond embarrassing.
You don't feel like you are controlling a loyal disciplined companion to conquer an objective, you feel like you just dyed your hair green and made a Youtube reaction thumbnail "thanks guise make sure to lyke and subscribe".
Not to mention the CORNY unit names. B.O.B? You just know some 46 year old guy with a limp one made that name up. "Hehe get it, because BOB is a name, too!". Same thing with Scout. They had the OPPORTUNITY to create Lore, and instead reached for the low hanging fruit.
Considering their 30+ million dollar budget and the quality of the sound and art, is should be pretty clear to everyone by now that they outsourced almost all of their product to some 3rd world company, that probably usually works on Mobile games. Which makes sense, StormGate devs worked for blizzard so they know the same 3rd world connects that Diablo Immortal used.
I don't know why people still fall for this early access crap. There is no incentive for Devs to continue their project when they already have your money, and can instead add "Part of $30million dollar game" and move onto their next project.
The nail in the coffin is the insane lack of developer spotlighting. And if you go to the Heroes screen and JUST LOOK AT THE ART. Some developer literally sat in a chair on his $150,000-$300,000 salary and said "yep, that's okay for Early access. Now release the CASH SHOP"
The Sound Design in Age of Empires 4 is amazing, you should try it.
So why Stormgate then?
1) Like it or not, Blizzard RTS has a massive following. While SC2 leaned heavy to Esports, the previous titles did not. They crafted great memories and stories for all RTS fans, not just those who want to climb a ladder.
2) Its not likely we will ever see another Blizzard RTS game unless Microsoft decides to fund one in addition to the Age series. Whether you are a long time fan of Blizzard or Command and Conquer, we need new IPs to carry the torch. Games like Stormgate and Tempest Rising are trying to do that.
Starcraft 2 lacked strategic and tactical complexity? Is that why entire team houses were dedicated to playing the game and assembling new strategies together? Also, not only have all three races had good representation in premier tournaments and GM, but you can look anywhere to see a myriad of posts saying Zerg, Terran or Protoss are OP. Which suggests that the balance is more or less fine, since the community can't all get onboard on any particular race being overbearing. This is exactly the type of feedback we would expect to see if players are simply frustrated at their skills, and try to blame an enemy's loadout just like any other game.
Let's review the technological features. Did Starcraft 2 alpha graphics look considerably better than even Stormgate today? You betcha. Is the unit pathing miles still god-esque? You betcha. Are the cinematics jaw dropping compared to other RTS games? Not even a real question. The UI/UX is polished and intuitive, and there is clear readability for all aspects of the game. I dare say that you seem to be out of your mind.
That's a testament to how amazing SC2 was that the only real components missing were balance adjustments, and extra co-op content out of the gate. Starcraft 2 even at its start was at least at "diamond in the rough" status. Stormgate is a trainwreck without a light at the end of the tunnel. When I played Starcraft 2 even in its public beta form, there was a lot to be desired when it came to balance but all the fundamentals were there for a great game. Stormgate, on the other hand, is quite possibly the most disappointed I've ever been in a game.
So far, Stormgate has been doing most things wrong from the get-go. Roughly 95% of startup businesses fail, and here they are paying themselves AAA salaries for an unproven AA game, and their game studio is in one of the most expense places in the country. And their output is lopsided for the labor put in, since everything from the art direction, voice acting, story, etc., is a total miss. And it looks and feels like a bad mobile game.
Starcraft 2 was such a phenomenally rewarding and mechanically well-tuned game that it basically ruined most of Brood War UMS for me. Nothing wrong with Blizzard focusing on ladder. Starcraft 2's lethality is just a part of the skill curve. As someone who played both Brood war & Starcraft 2 for years on end I haven't had any trouble keeping up. It feels absolutely fantastic to pummel the opponent for bad decisions with immediate feedback. While that aspect does put off casuals, that's why the game has campaign, arcade, and co-op. It seems to be a good mixture, since the popularity of the game for so long cannot be understated.
Then why is Starcraft 2's co-op still so celebrated? And while not everyone agrees on if Starcraft 2's campaign was terrific all the way through, I can say there is almost universal praise for the Wings of Liberty campaign. Its story is a tight, well-crafted narrative, with complex characters who operate in a moral grey, and a bad guy that you love to hate rather than just a boring foil. I would put this up against any RTS easily except Brood War.
We shouldn't praise games like Stormgate who foolishly strive for a vision beyond their budget and talent capacity. Because while the game flopping isn't life or death, keep in mind that employee families are depending on that next paycheck. And community goodwill towards Kickstarter projects can drop significantly. And finally, finite resources by both companies and people that could've been better spent elsewhere are now wasted if this fails.
Tempest Rising and ZeroSpace look visually more pleasing, and certainly seem to play much better. Why in the world should we praise Stormgate merely because it's a new RTS? We should realize that the time we dedicate to games does matter, and we should choose quality every time. But some people are easily amused, and that I can't help.
ya lost me forever. I dont actively playsc2, im not a simp for sc2 - i maybe have 600 games played tops.
and I know for a fact it's got the best RTS Engine. I know it's UI/EX and presentation are phenomenal.
Hi, how would you say SC2 is overrated? This kind of makes it sound like you have some vitriol against SC2. It's cool to think WC3 is a better game, but I'm just wondering what stops you from enjoying both? Or did the existence of SC2 make your WC3 experience worse?
I would argue it would make it better as it brings more people into the RTS space and therefor helps WC3.
I didn't like WC3. I liked WC2. WC3 was very different from any other Blizzard RTS. I didn't like heroes being integral to the game, forcing a much lower max pop (90 I believe).
WC2 did not have heroes. It had two standard factions (Orcs and Humans) and a full population cap. They released the Battle.net version on GOG.com. Why its not on Standard battle.net, I have no idea.
As for SC2 it screams Esports. But I think that goes with a game that launched in 2010 well after internet gaming and Esports had taken off. Major differences from WC2 and SC:
- a much faster gameplay speed
- perfectly symmetrical maps
- each spawn with a single ramp that you immediately needed to wall up to keep from a cheese rush
- FFA basically non-existent at launch which is what my friends and I always played in WC2 and SC.
WC2 and SC launched in an age when internet gaming wasn't much of a thing. LAN and couch co-op were the dominant ways to play with your friends.