Feedback: Make it more obvious how to play alone against AI

[schnappkatze]

Maybe I am blind, but I found it hard find out how to play a simple round against the AI to get used to the controls and general gameplay. Most options put me into matchmaking against humans directly.

I found the solution by creating a lobby and putting only me and an AI player in it, but that was a pretty counterintuitive way to just play a single player game against AI.

Maybe everyone else here is a StarCraft veteran who wants to jump directly into a competetive match against humans, without learning the game, but I can imagine that some people would like to get used to the game by playing against the AI (or even a Tutorial), and it would be better to not hide that option behind "creating a lobby".

Also I am still bothered by my memories of playing Warcraft 3 online and getting grouped with people who clearly hadn't figured out the basic controls or what to do in the game.

[Falaris]

It's a fairly normal way of doing it, and it gives the flexibility of using just one interface for skirmish vs. ai, vs others, and coop vs. ai. I found that pretty fair. The Homeworld 3 demo was far worse in this regard. Still, I can see how they might improve the description a bit.

For my part the main problem was that the default map was too large, and with not seeing the enemy at all for 10-15 minutes it seemed a bit ... empty and pointless. It definitely didn't do enough to keep you interested.

I think they'd be better served by having a few tutorial missions or some such; I get the impression this was a VERY early demo with a lot of things missing.

[schnappkatze]

Originally posted by Falaris:

It's a fairly normal way of doing it, and it gives the flexibility of using just one interface for skirmish vs. ai, vs others, and coop vs. ai. I found that pretty fair. The Homeworld 3 demo was far worse in this regard. Still, I can see how they might improve the description a bit.

Ah alright, then it is probably a "me problem", I haven't played a proper RTS since Warcraft 3 and am not used to the modern UI of these games. If 99% of people will understand how to do this, my feedback can be happily ignored.

Originally posted by Falaris:

I think they'd be better served by having a few tutorial missions or some such; I get the impression this was a VERY early demo with a lot of things missing.

Yes, I got that feeling, too. I assume that making an actual tutorial this early is just a waste of resources, because so much can change untill release and they need to redo it then. They could at least put a "how to play this game" button in the start menu which brings you into a 1 on 1 game against an easy AI and starts with an small info-box that explains the basic principles, like: "these are your workers, they collect these two resources, build units in these buildings and destroy the enemy base" or so.

But I guess the target audience is basically only people who have played RTS games before, and they rather have a few people confused about the game instead of spending resources on this, which might make sense.


One UI nitpick, completely seperated from the rest: I expect my resources to be somewhere on the top of my screen, and it annoys me that they are in the menu where you give orders to the unit you have currently selected. Why? Seems to me so counterintuitive, as it is different than in most games that I can remember (especially the top dogs of the RTS genre, Age of Empires 2, WC3 and SC/SC2)

[Sifer2]

Originally posted by Falaris:

It's a fairly normal way of doing it, and it gives the flexibility of using just one interface for skirmish vs. ai, vs others, and coop vs. ai. I found that pretty fair. The Homeworld 3 demo was far worse in this regard. Still, I can see how they might improve the description a bit.

For my part the main problem was that the default map was too large, and with not seeing the enemy at all for 10-15 minutes it seemed a bit ... empty and pointless. It definitely didn't do enough to keep you interested.

I think they'd be better served by having a few tutorial missions or some such; I get the impression this was a VERY early demo with a lot of things missing.

I don't see how Homeworld 3 was worse. Neither one had single player on the main menu. You just have to create a Private match then start it alone. Stormgate is actually worse since the only thing it has close to a tutorial is if you play tutorial difficulty in the co-op. And that doesn't even cover Infernal. At least Homeworld 3 had a proper Tutorial. Not that it helped make that atrocious control scheme any better.

[Falaris]

Originally posted by Sifer2:

Originally posted by Falaris:

It's a fairly normal way of doing it, and it gives the flexibility of using just one interface for skirmish vs. ai, vs others, and coop vs. ai. I found that pretty fair. The Homeworld 3 demo was far worse in this regard. Still, I can see how they might improve the description a bit.

For my part the main problem was that the default map was too large, and with not seeing the enemy at all for 10-15 minutes it seemed a bit ... empty and pointless. It definitely didn't do enough to keep you interested.

I think they'd be better served by having a few tutorial missions or some such; I get the impression this was a VERY early demo with a lot of things missing.

I don't see how Homeworld 3 was worse. Neither one had single player on the main menu. You just have to create a Private match then start it alone. Stormgate is actually worse since the only thing it has close to a tutorial is if you play tutorial difficulty in the co-op. And that doesn't even cover Infernal. At least Homeworld 3 had a proper Tutorial. Not that it helped make that atrocious control scheme any better.

Homeworld 3 specified online. Which doesn't sound very 'skrimish vs. ai'. Also, you didn't have options to add AI factions or choose their side; you could only guess that something was added. I found that quite unhelpful.

The presence - or absence - of a tutorial is a separate thing to how easy skirmishes are to set up, and I don't see that as relevant.

[Nico]

Originally posted by schnappkatze:

Yes, I got that feeling, too. I assume that making an actual tutorial this early is just a waste of resources, because so much can change untill release and they need to redo it then. They could at least put a "how to play this game" button in the start menu which brings you into a 1 on 1 game against an easy AI and starts with an small info-box that explains the basic principles, like: "these are your workers, they collect these two resources, build units in these buildings and destroy the enemy base" or so.

There actually is this type of tutorial in the game. All you need to do is play Coop on the Tutorial difficulty with Blockade. Though if you use matchmaking instead of a custom lobby your team mates may or may not be slightly annoyed to have to wait for you to get through the tutorial.

[schnappkatze]

Originally posted by Nico:

Originally posted by schnappkatze:

Yes, I got that feeling, too. I assume that making an actual tutorial this early is just a waste of resources, because so much can change untill release and they need to redo it then. They could at least put a "how to play this game" button in the start menu which brings you into a 1 on 1 game against an easy AI and starts with an small info-box that explains the basic principles, like: "these are your workers, they collect these two resources, build units in these buildings and destroy the enemy base" or so.

There actually is this type of tutorial in the game. All you need to do is play Coop on the Tutorial difficulty with Blockade. Though if you use matchmaking instead of a custom lobby your team mates may or may not be slightly annoyed to have to wait for you to get through the tutorial.

Thank you for responding, that is really nice. Maybe that is just me, but I would it if the tutorial were just a button in the start menu, so you don't have the stress of team mates waiting for you and you can take all the time you want.

This doesn't really matter since I know how to play typical RTS games, it is more a general comment on what might be best for the game to reach newcomers who want to try the demo, have never touched an RTS before and don't really know what to do to get shown the basic gameplay concepts in a single player environment.