Why Stormgate Will Flop

[Pan Darius Cassandra]

I gotta admit, Stormgate looks good on the surface. It's slick.

Graphics better than SC2, animations look hot, pathing looks good.

So why do I think it will fail?

Because it's a SC2 clone. It's formulaic. Everything it's doing has already been done. Which makes it nothing more than a cosmetic upgrade over SC2. Additionally, it looks far too much like SC2 (and I like that look).

There's zero innovation here in terms of gameplay. It's the same old rehashed crap. It's safe. Zero risk. Just running the formula through one more iteration.

Most people don't care about esports. Chasing after esport money is like a heroin addict chasing the dragon.

Even SC2 didn't do that well in the esports arena, but it survived (barely). Co-op Commander is SC2's most popular mode.

So why do it? Why shoot yourself in the foot? You think you're going to capture that high again, amirite? This time you're going to catch the dragon?

Not going to happen. People don't want a SC2 clone with a graphics update. They want a new game. Something NEW. New mechanics, new approach to rts.

Novelty is what sells video games. What does Stormgate do that's new?

As far as I can tell at this point, nothing. It does nothing new. It's literally just a SC2 clone with a new coat of paint.

How boring. How dull. I'll wait for an rts that completely redefines the genre by trying something new.

[Lord451]

I don't feel quite as hopeless as you do, and even a halfway decent RTS if samey is fun. But I'm mostly excited about the idea of the coop. That was by far my favorite system in SC2 and spent more money on coop commanders than everything else SC2 related combined. I hope that's how their stated coop works.

I'd love to find some more info about how this will work, because all I've found is that the 3vsai coop will be cooperative, have three players, and be against an ai. So...

Edit: I found some more info about it. Sounds like it'll cover what I like playing with my friends. If the coop is fun I'd drop money on it without regrets.

[Molay]

I adore how "close to home" this feels, it's going to be familiar and cozy to play a game that plays like a blend of starcraft and warcraft. Honestly, couldn't be happier they are heavily inspired by those. Particularly looking forward to seeing what they do with co-op and how frequently they release campaign content. I imagine that's a big money earner, probably more so than competitive skin sales (but I don't know for sure). Personally never bought skins, but I do pay for actual content i.e. commanders in sc2 and the campaign pack.

If you want something different, the guys that did Planetary Annihilation announced their next game. You'll probably think it bland and formulaic as it expands on their previous game (and by extension supreme commander, total annihilation...), but it's a different blend of RTS.

Anyway, I don't really subscribe to the faux outrage and pessimism over making a product people want. People that are into starcraft and warcraft want nothing more than a game that feels like those games do. There's nothing out there as far as I can tell. Age of Empires is a different beast of a game (not bad either tbh), but it's VERY different, with floaty unit movement and micro. That nice, tight control that makes blizzard RTS games great, the unique unit abilities, the asymetric factions, the love for a good campaign. All things blizzard RTS fans love. If Stormgate has that, it pretty much already taps into that existing, underserved market. So that's a good baseline at any rate.

[Pan Darius Cassandra]

引用自 Neville：

People that are into starcraft and warcraft want nothing more than a game that feels like those games do.

Yeah, like all 12 of them?

[ShouteN]

Thats true. Esports in RTS is a bad take. 10% of players play it online. Id rather get pretty decent AI, a lot of factions to choose from and enjoy different playstyles and outcomes in skirmish. But i guess this is not that game. Again.

[Sel Und Irae]

I think the RTS side and Campaign are gunna flop personally, Aslong as it has the WorldEditor and allows you to do custom stuff (Anime) it'll survive, especially if it doesn't have the assbackword changes that Activision put through when they forced Reforged upon people and changed how triggers worked forcing everyone to adapt to VJASS or perish.

https://youtu.be/rrKv60ree6A?t=169

https://youtu.be/zSR1hBWs2bs

https://youtu.be/itXuQ1Y2Ct4?si=f3vcKpNslVKICZcO

Co-op & Custom Game Modes will carry, I'm waiting for this game to launch personally and if it has Editor with Heros & Inventory WC3 is going bye bye.

[DrumPierre]

Can you explain why is Stormgate's gameplay a clone of SC2's?
How is game's design directed by wanting to get the e-sport money?

[Rise Kujikawa]

引用自 Pan Darius Loveless：

I gotta admit, Stormgate looks good on the surface. It's slick.

Graphics better than SC2, animations look hot, pathing looks good.

So why do I think it will fail?

Because it's a SC2 clone. It's formulaic. Everything it's doing has already been done. Which makes it nothing more than a cosmetic upgrade over SC2. Additionally, it looks far too much like SC2 (and I like that look).

There's zero innovation here in terms of gameplay. It's the same old rehashed crap. It's safe. Zero risk. Just running the formula through one more iteration.

Most people don't care about esports. Chasing after esport money is like a heroin addict chasing the dragon.

Even SC2 didn't do that well in the esports arena, but it survived (barely). Co-op Commander is SC2's most popular mode.

So why do it? Why shoot yourself in the foot? You think you're going to capture that high again, amirite? This time you're going to catch the dragon?

Not going to happen. People don't want a SC2 clone with a graphics update. They want a new game. Something NEW. New mechanics, new approach to rts.

Novelty is what sells video games. What does Stormgate do that's new?

As far as I can tell at this point, nothing. It does nothing new. It's literally just a SC2 clone with a new coat of paint.

How boring. How dull. I'll wait for an rts that completely redefines the genre by trying something new.

It has been said by a few Frost Giant peeps there is a massive sleeping giant of a market comprised of individuals wanting a social rts game to play co op with their friends. A game where a kid watching his favorite SC2 content creator on sub appreciation day can hop online and even have grandma get on with her 2005 e machines desktop and the three of them can play co op together. And with a lower skill floor grandma can play at a higher level than she normally could and they will have quite a game creating an amazing experience for the three of them but also for the 300-400 viewers on twitch and the viewers on youtube when they view the video at a later time on demand (turn off ad block thank you).

But yeah they needed to get away from SC2/WC3 and innovate A LOT considering the state of the genre. I still think the biggest issue facing the game is the vip/balance council influence on pretty much the whole game but that sort of ties into running the same formula, etc.

[Pan Darius Cassandra]

They need to try something completely and utterly new.

I have a ton of ideas, of which there is 0% chance any of the devs would listen to, but how about starting with this:

Get rid of resource harvesting. It's the worst part of an rts.

[Sel Und Irae]

引用自 Pan Darius Loveless：

They need to try something completely and utterly new.

I have a ton of ideas, of which there is 0% chance any of the devs would listen to, but how about starting with this:

Get rid of resource harvesting. It's the worst part of an rts.

That would be simple to do if you attached a trigger onto a unit or building that aslong as the structure or unit exists every (X) seconds you get (X) income. If they didn't have any resource i think the game would flop cause no incentive to build weaker stuff unless it took a literal hour to get the endgame stuff out.

People already did the resource concept in Warcraft 3 (Village Builder Gold)

[Pan Darius Cassandra]

引用自 Sel Und Irae：

引用自 Pan Darius Loveless：

They need to try something completely and utterly new.

I have a ton of ideas, of which there is 0% chance any of the devs would listen to, but how about starting with this:

Get rid of resource harvesting. It's the worst part of an rts.

That would be simple to do if you attached a trigger onto a unit or building that aslong as the structure or unit exists every (X) seconds you get (X) income. If they didn't have any resource i think the game would flop cause no incentive to build weaker stuff unless it took a literal hour to get the endgame stuff out.

People already did the resource concept in Warcraft 3 (Village Builder Gold)

Reinforcements on timers/cd's.

[HighLanderPony]

"Novelty is what sells games."

*noises of the billions made annually by F2P, gachas, CoD, Madden and whatnot*

[Molay]

I really don't want novelty for novelty's sake. I want a high production quality, familiar RTS with long term support and content. I'd be happy to play SC2 coop for hundreds more hours if it added more maps, perhaps more map mechanics, and commanders (make me pay I really don't mind if the content is good).

I certainly don't want a totally dumbed down "novelty" that takes out resource gathering, that's for sure. Then we end up with some Dawn of War/Company of Heroes kinda game, not an RTS.

[Runaan]

The next big rts has to be a mix of moba and rts. A rts where the main game mode is 3v3 instead of 1v1.
Where you play roles like tank/healer/dps.

Like "A year of rain" did.

https://store.steampowered.com/app/319540/A_Year_Of_Rain/

But it has to be made by a studio with money and skill.

[Molay]

引用自 Hopkins：

The next big rts has to be a mix of moba and rts. A rts where the main game mode is 3v3 instead of 1v1.
Where you play roles like tank/healer/dps.

Like "A year of rain" did.

https://store.steampowered.com/app/319540/A_Year_Of_Rain/

But it has to be made by a studio with money and skill.

That could sound like fun too, and I'd definitely like to see what a game like this with a proper budget would look like. But I'd rather have Stormgate be the familiar thing I already love. There's not many true RTS out there, so I'm glad this one sticks to being a true RTS and not going the hybrid route.

[KamelittaOida]

引用自 Pan Darius Loveless：

Get rid of resource harvesting. It's the worst part of an rts.

???
you're definitely in the wrong genre. which nullifies anything else you said or will say. Most of all this thread.

Tempest Rising could be of interest to you, but until it releases: Z bitmap brothers, company of heroes, total war aka Real time tactics, Commandos and siblings (mimimi games) and many others I can't think of right now. supreme commander?
thunder tier one maybe too.