AON + Magazine Box?

[jdarnton]

What is the effective result of using the AON armor scheme and then selecting magazine box? Supposedly "deck and belt armor are halved" everywhere but the magazine with the magazine box option, but AON should basically already have all armor around the citadel? Using these two in combination results in a massive weight savings, but what is the underlying affect of actual armor protection?

[Silamon]

Magazine box has everything but the magazines halved. It is an extreme weight saving measure that was only ever really used in a few cases, mostly to keep tonnage down for treaty ships.

Using it WILL save a lot of weight, but you will compromise your armor in such a significant way that IMO it's not worth it. Maybe if you want some cheap cruisers or, as in real life, to fulfill treaty requirements while still having a decent armament.

[bgp_spook]

The only "normal" use case I can see is if you wanted to armor your turrets, which requires you to have one inch of belt armor, but do not care about actually having belt armor. Such as a CV or CVL.

Otherwise, it is an exteme weight savings measure that compromises your protection too much, in my opinion. Typically, if you are considering using it, you are probably better off without the armor.

[jdarnton]

Understood, I'm just wondering what the actual game mechanics are here. If I already have AON, what is actually getting halved?

[FourGreenFields]

AfaIk magazine is just the ammo storage, while the citadel includes the engines.

[Silamon]

Originally posted by jdarnton:

Understood, I'm just wondering what the actual game mechanics are here. If I already have AON, what is actually getting halved?

All or nothing covers all areas of the ship that is critical to staying afloat, including enough empty space to theoretically stay afloat even if everything outside the citadel is flooded. Magazine box only covers areas near turrets that have ammunition stored in them.

I did an experiment one game, built a class of 3 battlecruisers with 33 knot speed and 12 inch belt armor, all or nothing, magazine box, 15 inch guns. I forget the total tonnage but without the magazine box armor scheme I would have had to cut armor or speed to 30 knots. In theory it was going to stay at range and plink away with 15 inch guns. In practice they got shot up and wiped out by some older battleships with 12 or 13 inch guns. I'm sure I got really unlucky with engine hits but I never tried that again.

[Green Knight]

If you are tempted to use magazine box, check the following:

1. Will the ♥♥♥♥ get shot at AT ALL? If yes, don't use mag box.
2. If the ship will (almost) NEVER get shot at, then you can drop armor completely!

Joking aside, I've tried to make say CVLs or low-end CVs with mag box but in practice this is useless. If they are getting bombed it won't help that much anyway, so just go unarmored.

I've also tried it on light scouting CLs with high speed but the problem is that even a single pen into the engine will leave you crippled. With unit machinery you might be able to lip away. And anyway a CL is very limited in terms of how much armor it can carry in the first place so...

[Andrew Cree]

Note that Flight Deck Armour *isn't* affected by Magazine Box, so it is a way for carriers to carry lighter armour - say 4" Belt - whilst gaining protection from bombs.

[bgp_spook]

Originally posted by Andrew Cree:

Note that Flight Deck Armour *isn't* affected by Magazine Box, so it is a way for carriers to carry lighter armour - say 4" Belt - whilst gaining protection from bombs.

As I understand it, bombs don't care that much about belt armor other than maybe some benefit from near misses perhaps.

[Andrew Cree]

4" belt using Magazine Box gives you a 2" belt for the most part, with 4" over the magazines.

That means your main belt is protected against near misses causing splinter damage whilst the 4" magazine armour offers protection against 6" Q2 gunfire around 5,000-6,000 yards, just in case some CL or DD manages to sneak in close and give you a Royal Salute*

(*typical CLs and DDs don't actually mount 21 guns, but then most modern Salutes use a smaller number of ceremonial guns firing multiple saluting rounds for the same effect)

[[AIMA] DAVIDTHEGREAT]

I use mag box all the time in the late game; it allows me to make a BB with a 20" belt with a 8" deck for the magazine box... It still has 10" belt and 4" deck over the rest of the citadel. This gives it all it needs to survive most hits at long range, and provides a solid amount of protection at close range. It seems to work, but Ill do some testing to figure it out definitively.

[Silamon]

Originally posted by AIMA DAVIDTHEGREAT:

I use mag box all the time in the late game; it allows me to make a BB with a 20" belt with a 8" deck for the magazine box... It still has 10" belt and 4" deck over the rest of the citadel. This gives it all it needs to survive most hits at long range, and provides a solid amount of protection at close range. It seems to work, but Ill do some testing to figure it out definitively.

IIRC belt over 12 inch falls victim to some pretty hefty diminishing returns so it may not be worth all that compared to just having a smaller number.

[Propeel_skill]

Magbox is worth it in early CVs, where you have a lower limit of anti-surface armament. Say, if you build a carrier with 8" guns, you need to cover your magazine. It seems that it is completely useless with 4/5" guns as smaller caliber magazines are significantly less prone to flash fires in RTW, correct me if I am wrong.

[bgp_spook]

Originally posted by Propeel_skill:

Magbox is worth it in early CVs, where you have a lower limit of anti-surface armament. Say, if you build a carrier with 8" guns, you need to cover your magazine. It seems that it is completely useless with 4/5" guns as smaller caliber magazines are significantly less prone to flash fires in RTW, correct me if I am wrong.

That is a factor but in truth I always immediately refit the 8 inch guns off of my first CV.