1890s Battleships are sort of useless?

[Badd]

Maybe this is just me, but I find it way easier to make a cruiser that "does it all" in the 1890's - it really feels like guns, primitive as they are, can't really penetrate no matter what, so having a more mobile platform that's cheaper just feels like it makes more sense.

[Lucky]

Yes, kinda.

[m4rek]

I dunno, my Italian campaign had a pretty successful line of battleships from 1980 and the first redesign was basically the same thing with an extra 600t some 15 years later. The main purpose of battleships, particularly in that era, is to soak fire. A cruiser might have better firepower, but it will run out of tank before the cruiser does.

[FourGreenFields]

The big guns do have a use, though they generally won't be piercing another predread's B or D armour. >9 inch guns might still pierce another predread's BU or BE. And they might pierce a CA's armour.

But low-cal spam (even ~8-10 inch as main battery on a predread) is also viable early on. Just rely on spamming shots until you tear down the unarmoured parts. And even if you are using high-calibre main guns, a predread will likely be able to fit more secondaries and tertiaries than a CA would.

All that said, you can definitely build "proto-battlecruiser"-CAs, and with those you'll be able to fight predreads well enough.

[Lucky]

Originally posted by FourGreenFields:

The big guns do have a use, though they generally won't be piercing another predread's B or D armour. >9 inch guns might still pierce another predread's BU or BE. And they might pierce a CA's armour.

But low-cal spam (even ~8-10 inch as main battery on a predread) is also viable early on. Just rely on spamming shots until you tear down the unarmoured parts. And even if you are using high-calibre main guns, a predread will likely be able to fit more secondaries and tertiaries than a CA would.

All that said, you can definitely build "proto-battlecruiser"-CAs, and with those you'll be able to fight predreads well enough.

Early on anything above 7in has prohibitively low ROF. And 7in themselves are suboptimal. Since you can't build B's with 6in mains they are at a disadvantage.

Standart warships of this era is something with 6in main battery, 5in secondary and optional tertiary. It guarantees lots of early hits and after that it simply removes superstructure and damage control parties leaving blazing wreck.

Whatever you have put into larger guns will be a deadweight doing nothing all the way til mid-00s.

[Silamon]

I usually build a handful of small Bs for blockade strength, and have heavy cruisers as my main fighting force in the 1890s. Usually the heavy cruisers will have 8-10 inch main guns and as many 5-7 inch secondaries as possible, depending on the nation's gun qualities.

[Andrew Cree]

Originally posted by Silamon:

I usually build a handful of small Bs for blockade strength, and have heavy cruisers as my main fighting force in the 1890s. Usually the heavy cruisers will have 8-10 inch main guns and as many 5-7 inch secondaries as possible, depending on the nation's gun qualities.

This. With only a little shaving here and there, you can build a 15,000t B with twin 8" guns A+Y, 5 casemated 8" guns on each broadside (giving a broadside of 9 guns) plus 24 casemated 6" guns for the secondary battery (12 per broadside) and round off with about 10 3" guns (5 per broadside).

That gives an excellent volume of fire, and with HE and heavier shells (shell weight is roughly 0.5*calibre^3: 13.5lbs for 3" guns, 62.5lbs for 6" guns and 256lbs for 8" guns), you can increase the chance of starting a fire which is an easy kill early in the game.

[Badd]

B's for blockade strength is a good use for them for sure. Also good points about how to make B's more viable!

[Lucky]

Originally posted by Andrew Cree:

Originally posted by Silamon:

I usually build a handful of small Bs for blockade strength, and have heavy cruisers as my main fighting force in the 1890s. Usually the heavy cruisers will have 8-10 inch main guns and as many 5-7 inch secondaries as possible, depending on the nation's gun qualities.

This. With only a little shaving here and there, you can build a 15,000t B with twin 8" guns A+Y, 5 casemated 8" guns on each broadside (giving a broadside of 9 guns) plus 24 casemated 6" guns for the secondary battery (12 per broadside) and round off with about 10 3" guns (5 per broadside).

That gives an excellent volume of fire, and with HE and heavier shells (shell weight is roughly 0.5*calibre^3: 13.5lbs for 3" guns, 62.5lbs for 6" guns and 256lbs for 8" guns), you can increase the chance of starting a fire which is an easy kill early in the game.

Nothing prevents you from installing the very same weaponry on a CA.

[Silamon]

Originally posted by Lucky:

Originally posted by Andrew Cree:

This. With only a little shaving here and there, you can build a 15,000t B with twin 8" guns A+Y, 5 casemated 8" guns on each broadside (giving a broadside of 9 guns) plus 24 casemated 6" guns for the secondary battery (12 per broadside) and round off with about 10 3" guns (5 per broadside).

That gives an excellent volume of fire, and with HE and heavier shells (shell weight is roughly 0.5*calibre^3: 13.5lbs for 3" guns, 62.5lbs for 6" guns and 256lbs for 8" guns), you can increase the chance of starting a fire which is an easy kill early in the game.

Nothing prevents you from installing the very same weaponry on a CA.

But you can't have as much armor and you get a lower blockade value for about the same cost. Bs still have a place early on IMO.

[Lucky]

Originally posted by Silamon:

Originally posted by Lucky:

Nothing prevents you from installing the very same weaponry on a CA.

But you can't have as much armor and you get a lower blockade value for about the same cost. Bs still have a place early on IMO.

You can't put much armor on a 1890s 15K B with that armament either. And blockade value will be very different after the first major battle.

[Silamon]

Originally posted by Lucky:

Originally posted by Silamon:

But you can't have as much armor and you get a lower blockade value for about the same cost. Bs still have a place early on IMO.

You can't put much armor on a 1890s 15K B with that armament either. And blockade value will be very different after the first major battle.

Fair enough. Like I said the Bs I build in the 1890s are usually smaller than my heavy cruisers, with one main gun turret and heavy armor. Mostly just there for blockade value.