AI nation fleets are all bigger and I am not sure why

[ulzgoroth]

USA, Jan 1896: I have the least total naval tonnage of anyone, the second-fewest battleships (ahead of pitiful Spain) and the fewest light cruisers. Comparing against the great powers (France, Germany, Britain, Russia) I have less than half as many battleships.

Is it just the starter fleets? It looks like Russia hit the first turn with 9 battleships to my 2, but they've still built more new hulls than me in almost every category (I might have a couple more CLs, and some colonial gunboat KEs.)

[Silamon]

The US navy was in heavy decline leading up to 1880, and had only just started increasing its naval budget around that time.

So they start with a small fleet but a higher budget than other navies on average.

Edit: as for the numbers being built, keep in mind in 1890 there are some battleships that only have a couple main battery guns and are not actually much larger than an armored cruiser. Like Germany starts out with battleships around 5000-7000 tons which are quite small for the classification.

[ulzgoroth]

Originally posted by Silamon:

Edit: as for the numbers being built, keep in mind in 1890 there are some battleships that only have a couple main battery guns and are not actually much larger than an armored cruiser. Like Germany starts out with battleships around 5000-7000 tons which are quite small for the classification.

So did I! My starter Bs were 7100 tons.

Germany is indeed building a lot of technical battleships, but France and Russia (as well as Britain of course) are churning out good-sized ships. Though I may have started catching up (while everybody else builds more 300t DDs than me).

[way2co0l_2003]

Also remember that America really hasn't become the "arsenal of democracy" yet. They're one of the strongest economies in the world and will be surpassing everyone else in just a few decades. But up until this point in time they have been very isolationist and military spending was the lowest of any of the major powers. Their army virtually nonexistent and their navy barely any better off. The Spanish American War changed that a bit, but it was the first world War that really brought them into world affairs to the extent they became a major naval power during the interwar years.

So basically what you're seeing is normal. America is a slow burn country. You'll start off far weaker than everyone else but you're also relatively safe and have the strongest guaranteed gains from your economy that will propel you to 1st as long as you don't lose catastrophically in every war you fight to constantly have to be paying reparations.

Just give it some time and gradually build yourself up. You'll get there. :)

[ulzgoroth]

I mean, yes, but the question was 'why am I seeing people without more budget than me building more battleships than me'.

I'm still not sure if I've gotten an answer...I've just wound up with a bunch more battleships without knowing why.

Also interestingly had powers right up to Russia try real hard to avoid getting into a war with me.

[way2co0l_2003]

Can you post your almanac Nation data? Looking at the game I see that Britain, France, Russia, Germany, Italy, Japan and even Austria Hungary begin the 1890 start date with a larger naval budget than America. So yes, they should be building more battleships than you for several years, until the American government starts funneling more money into the navy.

[Andrew Cree]

Other than asking if you are maximising your available budget by using the mothball and reserve options as much as possible, looks like you're in the right ballpark.

[way2co0l_2003]

Originally posted by Andrew Cree:

Other than asking if you are maximising your available budget by using the mothball and reserve options as much as possible, looks like you're in the right ballpark.

Also a very good point. I personally try to get as close to half my tonnage mothballed as I can manage for as long as low tensions allow with most of the rest of my forces in reserve. As tensions increase, the ratio of active ships i maintain increases as well. This results in significant cost savings though does hurt ship crew quality heavily so its important to balance it with how likely a war is going to occur in the relatively near future. It's also a good idea to keep certain important ships in higher states of readiness. It's a very important tool to learn how to manage to get maximum effect from your budget though.

[josmith]

While mothballing will often cause you to enter a war with less than optimum crews, keep in mind that the AI nations typically mothball the maximum number of ships in their fleets and place additional units into reserve status, so they often start a war with very poor crews on many of their ships. If your own ship crews are suffering from their ships having been in mothball you will probably be no worse off than the AI. On the other hand, if you keep your ships active you will have a substantial crew advantage for the first 6 months or so of a war as the AI works up his ship's crews.

To give you an idea of the financial benefits of aggressive mothballing (equal to about half your fleet), mothballing will often free up enough budget to allow you to pay for the construction of another battleship or perhaps a bit more on a monthly basis when you are playing on medium fleets. Getting an additional battleship every 3 years or so will definitely benefit your fleet.

[Drakken]

Originally posted by ulzgoroth:

I mean, yes, but the question was 'why am I seeing people without more budget than me building more battleships than me'.

I'm still not sure if I've gotten an answer...I've just wound up with a bunch more battleships without knowing why.

Also interestingly had powers right up to Russia try real hard to avoid getting into a war with me.

How's your brinksmanship? Are you keeping the tension close with a number of foreign powers, without going all the way to war? Do you go on ventures to "liberate" neutral regions to increase your country's Base income, which will trickle into your Navy budget?

Parliaments will tend to vote bigger naval budget if the threat of a looming war is present. If you avoid tensions with everyone and keep it low, it will vote it down because frankly, you don't need it.

[Burnside's Sideburns]

While what everyone says here is right, the AI also pulls some bs with their budget. Often neutral nations will have a higher budget rating than you when you are at war. Nations budget rating always creeps towards yours, even with fairly low tensions as well, and any nation you start winning battles against has their budget go through the roof. Over time, the AI accumulates much more stuff as a result.
Naval Budget in Almanac = Budget Rating * (Base Resources + Colony Resources)
If you manage to increase your budget through an event, the AIs will match yours within a month or two, but with no penalty for them.

[Drakken]

Well, AI countries will try to match the budget increases of their neighbors. GB has explicitly the feature that it will match its closest rival's tonnage and expenditures.

Also, some countries just start with a shoddy economic disadvantage. Germany, Spain, Japan, and China in 1890s are way, way, way in the back economy-wise.

[ulzgoroth]

Originally posted by WingedIncubus:

Originally posted by ulzgoroth:

I mean, yes, but the question was 'why am I seeing people without more budget than me building more battleships than me'.

I'm still not sure if I've gotten an answer...I've just wound up with a bunch more battleships without knowing why.

Also interestingly had powers right up to Russia try real hard to avoid getting into a war with me.

How's your brinksmanship? Are you keeping the tension close with a number of foreign powers, without going all the way to war? Do you go on ventures to "liberate" neutral regions to increase your country's Base income, which will trickle into your Navy budget?

Parliaments will tend to vote bigger naval budget if the threat of a looming war is present. If you avoid tensions with everyone and keep it low, it will vote it down because frankly, you don't need it.

Again, the point of comparison was nations with similar or weaker budgets. So telling me about how to upsize my budget is missing it.

(The answer is, often considerable tensions but also often not pushing the maximum aggressive decisions. I didn't want to actually go to war with Germany. Or with Britain, but I fell into that anyway. And I always pick 'invest in railroads' when there's a surplus on the table.)