What's your opinion on full respecs/reskills?

[Space Cowboy]

Lately I was in the mood for Action RPGs so I played a bit of Marvel Heroes, Diablo 2, Diablo 3 and now Torchlight 2. So, what I immediately did with Diablo 2 and Torchlight 2 was to go online and find a leveling guide for the characters and the style I want to play. Why was I doing that? Because in a game like this it seriously hampers or completely destroys my enjoyment if I figure out that I misskilled my character or if it turns out that the playstyle I chose simply turns out to be not fun. I know that Torchlight 2 offers a respec of the last 3 skills and that gives you some possibilities to try out new skills but it's certainly not enough to figure out different playstyles for a class. One way to figure out different playstyles would be to do a playthrough with a class and spread out all of your points to all skills, try them out and then play again from the start with a specialized character - that would take a HUGE number of hours and it wouldn't be much fun for most people I presume (certainly not for me). This or you open up excel and do some hard number crunching which isn't exactly my idea of fun and it also doesn't tell you if the skills are actually fun to play with. So, I guess many people will do the same thing as me an just look up a guide to save themselfs the hassle. Luckily Torchlight 2 is moddable (with some caviets unfortunately) and this time I installed the "full respec" mod before I even started the game.

So, I'd argue that the abundance of a full respec in any Diablo inspired Action RPG is just a giant waste of time but I'd like other peoples opinion about it, maybe I missed some merrit of not being able to fully respec but as it stands I find it to be an outdated and not very sensible design choice and I can't see a disadvantage in having the option.

[HunterKiller]

Try this out.

http://clockworkcore.org/tl2rrhelp.html

[Milord]

I like the benefits of planning builds in advance but at the same time I don't think casual players should be punished for not doing so.

Maybe the game should offer the chance to respec each time the story is completed.

[Tiomasta]

It's like total fake difficulty is what it is. Being able to respec the last 3 points is barely any difference from not being able to respec at all, you can't go far at all in something without going past the point of no return but at the same time you can't try out stuff properly without getting it to whatever ranks actually matter a lot (since as would make sense, many skills are much better at higher ranks and levels than at the lowest ranks, whether it be because of its mere number differences or because of completely new tier bonuses), and you certainly can't get everything high at the same time even just for the sake of testing them. You can't even tell how its values end up being, if you don't already have the skill then all it will say is the rank1 stats and not even show how it grows next to rank2, and if you have rank1 then all it will show is rank2. You wouldn't even know that Wolfpack is actually a DPS skill or have any idea about how good a lot of tier bonuses ultimately are, or how its MP cost grows (a few certain skills are better at certain ranks for most scenarios instead of maxing because of the increasing MP cost, even if the skill points weren't an issue). If you could at least scroll between ranks with the mouse wheel or something like that it would've been a bit nicer.

It's not that you have to plan it before, it's that you outright cannot.

What I did was to make a dummy character of each class and use the developer console to level them to max and keep giving them equipment and infinite skill points and respecs, so that I can actually tell how strong everything actually is, with a build like this or a build like that, and I write down everything, every idea and detail. That's the only way to make it intelligible: having ALL of the information of the class be completely done by same one person so they can actually compare and judge and optimize everything appropriately. (Which is pretty much the opposite of what people do)
And even then I just put in respecs in the game because I could change my mind on a little thing about a build, and with that I wouldn't actually need to re-do the whole character and all the levels. I name all my characters after their general build, if it's an entirely different build for the same class then I just make a separate character. Almost sorta like I picked that subclass as a setting during character generation, which is kinda a way for handling respeccing as if it had been like that in the game for real.

[Milord]

Originally posted by Tiomasta:

It's not that you have to plan it before, it's that you outright cannot.

http://tidbi.ru/eng/

[Space Cowboy]

Originally posted by Tiomasta:

It's like total fake difficulty is what it is. Being able to respec the last 3 points is barely any difference from not being able to respec at all, you can't go far at all in something without going past the point of no return but at the same time you can't try out stuff properly without getting it to whatever ranks actually matter a lot (since as would make sense, many skills are much better at higher ranks and levels than at the lowest ranks, whether it be because of its mere number differences or because of completely new tier bonuses), and you certainly can't get everything high at the same time even just for the sake of testing them. You can't even tell how its values end up being, if you don't already have the skill then all it will say is the rank1 stats and not even show how it grows next to rank2, and if you have rank1 then all it will show is rank2. You wouldn't even know that Wolfpack is actually a DPS skill or have any idea about how good a lot of tier bonuses ultimately are, or how its MP cost grows (a few certain skills are better at certain ranks for most scenarios instead of maxing because of the increasing MP cost, even if the skill points weren't an issue). If you could at least scroll between ranks with the mouse wheel or something like that it would've been a bit nicer.

It's not that you have to plan it before, it's that you outright cannot.

What I did was to make a dummy character of each class and use the developer console to level them to max and keep giving them equipment and infinite skill points and respecs, so that I can actually tell how strong everything actually is, with a build like this or a build like that, and I write down everything, every idea and detail. That's the only way to make it intelligible: having ALL of the information of the class be completely done by same one person so they can actually compare and judge and optimize everything appropriately. (Which is pretty much the opposite of what people do)
And even then I just put in respecs in the game because I could change my mind on a little thing about a build, and with that I wouldn't actually need to re-do the whole character and all the levels. I name all my characters after their general build, if it's an entirely different build for the same class then I just make a separate character. Almost sorta like I picked that subclass as a setting during character generation, which is kinda a way for handling respeccing as if it had been like that in the game for real.

Yes, exactly my thoughts. You said it really well. Imo it's a decision which plays to your sense of nostalgia but it doesn't really add anything to the fun factor or challenge - it just limits your possibilites and forces you to use sources outside the game to play it effectively. Unless developers get really creative with their skill systems in the future I think that respecs should become a standart for the genre. I know the game is old but I do hope that this gets patched into the regular version of the game - that even happened to Diablo 2. And if a Torchlight 3 ever happens I hope that they'll include it.

Originally posted by HunterKiller ®:

Try this out.

htt..p..:/c.lockwo..rkc.re.rg/t..l2r..e.lp.htm.l

Originally posted by Jengu:

Originally posted by Tiomasta:

It's not that you have to plan it before, it's that you outright cannot.

htt...p..://t.i.d.b.i.r.u/e.n.g/

Guys, don't just post any links without context - I sure won't click them - those could be viruses, fishing attempts or whatever and I'll just end up reporting this even if you meant well.

[Milord]

Your lack of knowledge regarding computer security astounds me.

[Space Cowboy]

Originally posted by Jengu:

Your lack of knowledge regarding computer security astounds me.

Okay.

[MD ZARA]

gg your opinion

[Michael]

Originally posted by Jengu:

Your lack of knowledge regarding computer security astounds me.

Your sense of security astounds me.

[xenowerks]

I think the devs were ♥♥♥♥♥ for excluding the respec in torchlight 2. It was nothing more than artificial replayability and actually degrades the experience. I have use respecs a tonn and i dont feel ive "cheated" one bit. the reason is that to find a build you like and thats good you need to experiment and to do that you need to respec. the alternative which is what the devs pushed on us is to have to restart a new character and rerun the game and that is bs. im ok with respecs and attribute respecs too as long anyone isnt using a weapon or gear they didnt get from a legit drop in a pug group im in, even so i wouldnt be quick to boot someone for a console droped item unless they were ruining the rest of the groups experience due to it. also the mechanics of this game are all over the place with hits, weapon hits, conveyance, and all sorts of not clear and miss leading tool tips if your not respecing your basically geting your time wasted by the devs incompetence.