Rapid Fire

[Cinus]

Hey im gonna play on elite and wanna play again with Rapid Fire. Is is still good with- dodge,poison, elemental dmg and dodge? Maybe some pact or smth? I remember i did bad thing and max DEX and i should max STR is that true?

[steffire3]

Originally posted by Cinus:

Hey im gonna play on elite and wanna play again with Rapid Fire. Is is still good with- dodge,poison, elemental dmg and dodge? Maybe some pact or smth? I remember i did bad thing and max DEX and i should max STR is that true?

Dexterity has a powerful regression after 350 points invested hence it's better to heavily favor Strength when using Dps Skills. Invest Focus if using Skills that don't feature Dps or Skills that state Dps dealt as a Damage Type.

Within dungeons - randomly find and use Boris the Stat Enchanter on Items to add more Stat points beyond the usual investments.

Torchlight 2 is flexible with Builds hence using Rapid Fire, Chaos Burst, Shadow Shot, and Venomous Hail as main attack skills for a Dps Strength Build will perform well with various skill combinations.

Optionally the Skills that benefit heavily from Focus or support Focus well are Cursed Daggers, Shattering Glaive, Bane Breath, Venomous Hail. and every Skill within the Lore Skill Tree.

[HiFive]

Well, there is a group of people on here that prefer to max their Strength on every character and so they insist that everyone should do that. I've been playing the game for thousands of hours over the years and I don't do that.

For Outlander, I increase Dexterity, Focus and Vitality. I let Boris give me any additional Strength he happens to give me, but I seldom need to put points into Strength.

I always give my Outlanders lots of Dexterity for the crit chance on the Rapid Fire skill.

Also, the gear and weapons for Outlanders have a high Dexterity requirement. If you prioritize your Dexterity stat for your Outlander, you will be able to equip the weapons and gear designed for Outlanders much sooner.

Increasing your Focus will increase your elemental damage, and you will see that there is a passive skill that gives you more poison damage than other types of damage.

If you are taking a lot of damage, then Stone Pact works really well.

[HiFive]

Examples of some of my current vanilla-game Outlanders:

Level 100:
Strength 281; Dexterity 577; Focus 332; Vitality 459

He's still a work in progress, but is wearing a mix/match of Lv. 99 and Lv. 101 Unearthly gear. The Lv. 99 gear requires Strength 97 and Dexterity 271. The Lv. 101 gear requires Dexterity 358. Clearly, the developers intended for Outlanders to be leveled with tons of Dexterity.

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Level 66:
Strength 187; Dexterity 292; Focus 145; Vitality 285

He's wearing a number of pieces of Labarinto gear (requires Dexterity 170) that give him faster casting speed, faster attack speed, greater weapon range and greater crit damage.

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Level 30:
Strength 18; Dexterity 62; Focus 54; Vitality 60

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Level 20:
Strength 10; Dexterity 35; Focus 37; Vitality 64

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Level 28:
Strength 25; Dexterity 64; Focus 72; Vitality 71

[Turuk Makto]

With skills that are weapon based strenght makes sense because it increases weapon damage.

Also 484 dex is the soft cap for crit. Everything above that has diminishing returns. For that reason alone it makes sense that every point above 484 dex goes into strenght or focus depending on the spec.

It is kinda the same with vita. 484 is shield block cap (without additional block from shields). Thus for every class that is not engi putting more points in is rather a waste and even engi's dont need more. Yes it would still increase life/armor but it wont be enough to be worth it for all other classes than maybe engi.

[Cinus]

Is elemental damage and toxic good idea if im gonna use rapid fire and Venomous hail?

[Turuk Makto]

Hail is weapon based so it profits from weapon damage.

A weapon enchant with poison damage works though.

[steffire3]

Originally posted by Cinus:

Is elemental damage and toxic good idea if im gonna use rapid fire and Venomous hail?

Yes, they will function with the Focus attributes of Venom Hail (the Dps (Strength) is dealt as Poison Damage (Focus)) and the Tier 3 Burn of Rapid Fire respectably both under the Elemental Damage category.

[Cinus]

Originally posted by Fred_VIE:

Hail is weapon based so it profits from weapon damage.

A weapon enchant with poison damage works though.

Sorry... i mean toxic and elemental damage passive skill.

[steffire3]

Originally posted by Cinus:

Sorry... i mean toxic and elemental damage passive skill.

Yes. The Poison Passive deals Dps as Poison Damage upon foes destroyed and the Elemental Boost raises the % Damage of all Elemental Damage including that within Skills.

[Turuk Makto]

I´m not sure though if elemental damage also increases elemental damage that is weapon based like with hail tbh.

Then again the skill says "additional poison damage added to any elemental damage" so it should.

[steffire3]

Originally posted by Fred_VIE:

I´m not sure though if elemental damage also increases elemental damage that is weapon based like with hail tbh.

Then again the skill says "additional poison damage added to any elemental damage" so it should.

Certain kinds of Skills state "Dps dealt as (Any Damage Type)" hence Strength (Weapon Damage) and Focus (Elemental Boost) are both present to raise the final Damage result.

[Turuk Makto]

Originally posted by steffire3:

both present to raise the final Damage result.

From the statistical standpoint it would be interesting to know if elemental would be better due to elemental boni or weapon damage due to higher base damage, crit and crit bonus.

[steffire3]

Originally posted by Fred_VIE:

From the statistical standpoint it would be interesting to know if elemental would be better due to elemental boni or weapon damage due to higher base damage, crit and crit bonus.

Someone would have to test various Stat amounts with specific Skills and write their results into a Steam Guide. Some Skills add different amounts of Weapon Damage and Internal Damage depending on their Rank hence the variation would have to be considered.
Currently there is one Guide that lists a graph for Emberquake under "The Mechanics of Build Design" section:
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1883242935

[ADEC Inc]

Weapon damage is all the instant damage dealt by the weapon directly. Strength increases it and the critical damage multiplier regardless of which elemental type it is.

Magic damage is just about every form of damage in the game, except the instant physical damage on a weapon. Focus increases it even if it happens to be non-weapon physical damage.

You may notice the overlap there. Non-physical weapon damage is also magic damage, and both attributes apply. Any other bonuses, like melee damage, ranged damage, cold, fire, etc. are applied the same as str/focus would be.

When damage is converted to a new type by a skill, this is done before attributes and bonuses are added. The poison damage from Venomous Hail for example is fully both weapon damage and magic damage.

For weapon skills, strength is a better investment than focus point-for-point, until the critical damage multiplier is capped out. From there it's a question of how much of the skill's damage is magical and not weapon-based.

[The Yeen Queen]

Originally posted by HiFive:

Well, there is a group of people on here that prefer to max their Strength on every character and so they insist that everyone should do that. I've been playing the game for thousands of hours over the years and I don't do that.

I mean, how necessary it is depends on how reliant you are on weapon-based damage. Just because you CAN do well without pumping strength doesn't mean you wouldn't be doing better if you did.