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1) Because the reason for making a game an MMO is always to give the creators a constant source of ongoing revenue. To achieve that, an MMO is designed to make the game a little uncomfortable to play until the player buys things from a game shop and/or pays a monthly fee for certain benefits. I also don't like having to be constantly online to play a game.
2) Since an MMO is a perpetual source of revenue, the game will continue to be modified in major ways to create more income for the managing company. It will also be sold to other companies in the future, who will make other changes, until the game is much different than it's original self.
3) MMO players are much different than solo or co-op players. They have a different mind-set and different approach to their gaming. They are generally much more fickle in their gaming choices. They follow fads. They follow crowds. They seek to impress their fellow gamers.
4) On an MMO, all the human social issues are present with the added disadvantage of social anonymity. The dynamics of playing a game where people are playing against each other, combined with this anonymity, creates an atmosphere conducive to nasty behavior. There are no jails to incarcerate the nasty people, no rehab centers to help people overcome their bad habits, no public venues (schools, churches, non-profits) to teach players good ethics, and social mores. It's basically a social jungle where civilized society and civilized behavior gets lost in the pursuit of being the best player or team of players on the game. Top that with a constantly changing population. In this social jungle we never know who we will meet. It could be someone who is an ax murderer in real life, or someone who decides to behave like one even though they are a "solid good citizen" in real life. Even if you find out that the person is awful, as long as you continue to play that game, you will likely be exposed to them again.
Now picture a soccer game where whoever is playing on the field always changes and all the players are wearing costumes to make it impossible to know who they are. Also, there is no referee. The rules are extremely basic, so there is very little rule-breaking and almost anything goes as long as you win. Many of the players are young, immature children, or even younger, impressionable children, who are mixed in with all sorts of adults, many of whom are very nasty people. Every player has choices as to how to communicate. Some are speaking to each other verbally. Some are texting each other. Some are texting the entire game community (picture various newscasters on the teams). Now add the real-life dangers of playing in such a community, with people seeking to phish personal information from players in chat or trying to hack other player's computers or hack the game, or trying to sell third-party stuff, or do horrible things to naive children.
When I play a game I want to relax and just have fun. Adding all those social issues by playing with strangers is more stressful than most people realize.
It's sad that the Torchlight II creators decided to redirect themselves to a different type of game (HOB) and then decided to disband, instead of simply focusing on doing what they do very, very well, and making Torchlight III. With Torchlight Frontiers, this new team is again making a different genre of game: an MMO. I'm extremely thankful that there are still tons of games being made that are not MMO's.
I need to inform you of something before and after those points regarding how the Torchlight developers actually saw things- even if I disagree with them, it's still the truth.
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Certain people behind Torchlight before it even began were already planning at some point to reach an Mmo stage for the franchise.
I'll Link some info here where those words were mentioned.
https://www.torchlightfansite.com/vaultwiki/rgf-s-runic-games-wiki/693-history-torchlight.html
Strangely, Torchlight (1 and 2) were in fact not their ultimate plan rather it was their necessity to build up the franchise at the time.
http://torchlight.wikia.com/wiki/Torchlight_MMO
With that said, it did appear there was some divergence within Runic Games staying within the Dungeon Crawler genre:
https://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/214020/Runic_founders_Baldree_and_Schaefer_leaving_to_go_indie.php
https://www.gizorama.com/2018/interview/rebel-galaxy-outlaw-interview-with-president-of-double-damage-games
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BUCoec2cP3s
So it's not surprising when this happened:
https://www.polygon.com/2017/11/3/16605008/runic-games-closes-motiga-layoffs
followed by:
https://www.gamereactor.eu/grtv/401463/Torchlight+Frontiers+Max+Schaeffer+Interview/
...
yeeeeaaah...
So much for the Torchlight franchise appearing to continue as a pure Dungeon Crawler... >_>
Just signed up for the next Alpha closed test. Alpha 3 closed test just started today, I saw, so I probably won't get an invite for this one. Can't wait to play this!
It's very interesting, just to see what you have here. I have not yet looked at any of the links you have provided, but I will, and I may get back to you on those, but so far this really changes my views quite a bit.
Silly, naive me, misinterpreted their videos from previous launches as people that were the "small town" version of the gaming world, and not interested in the corporate manipulations of MMO's, but rather just making fun games for RPG enthusiasts. It seems their true colors are showing now and their own hopes and dreams are finally being realized. We can all be extremely thankful that somehow they ended up making a solo RPG and then a co-op/solo RPG first.
I remember their video announcing Torchlight II. After years of waiting - finally - a video with 2 nice guys talking about the offering at a very reasonable price to make it accessible to as many people as possible, and being slightly coy about the graphics of the game, making us worry that perhaps they didn't come out so good, before blurting out that the graphics were beautiful! Also, explaining how they had designed it to be easily modified by the gaming community, and then posting a few initial mods to encourage the community to do so. "Don't worry. It's legitimate. We designed the game to let you do this. We want to encourage you to do this." It couldn't help but give everyone the warm fuzzies, and the game did not dissapoint. It was everything we hoped for and more. The modders eventually all got on board and to this day people are still making new mods. Such a story! It feels like Christmas thinking about it!
Anyway, back to here and now: When very large amounts of money are in potential play......
I think I'll finally bury any and all hopes I may have ever had that some day we will get another non-MMO Torchlight, since all RPG's (okay, just a lot, or maybe most, of them) seem to eventually fall into the irresistible gravitational field of the black hole named MMO!
I will now modify my description of the genre of game that I like to play most:
The initial offerings of RPG developers who have not yet landed an MMO contract with a large corporation.
Thank you, Yoda. I have been enlightened.
http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/news_index.php?story=23442
Some quotes from the article:
"The team has an interesting launch strategy for Torchlight; to gradually introduce to universe to a Western audience more familiar with the Diablo style of gameplay in a single-player context, Runic will launch a U.S. and Europe-only single-player version this year, ahead of the full MMO.
'It's just a way for us to get our feet wet... get the title out there, get people looking at it,' Schaefer explains. 'This will let the team have a published title and get the IP out there, and let people get to know the Torchlight universe and what to expect from the MMO when it comes out. We've already started on all the network stuff.'
and
"So Torchlight is shaping up to be a real core gamer's game -- precisely the sort of audience that has tended to resist the business model migration towards microtransactions. Is Schaefer concerned?
'First, hardcore gamers are just passionate and serious about their games -- there's really no good way to get money from them,' he laughs. 'It really all depends on how you implement it. If it's one of the games that's free-to-play, and you can optionally do item transactions -- but the reality is its a missed experience unless you pay a lot of money, that's gonna turn people off.'
Allowing players to buy themselves into the best character is no good strategy either, Schaefer says. 'The things you're selling have to be fun and useful, but it can't alienate the people who are not paying. You have to really make that a reality and not just a perception, because they'll see right through you... hardcore gamers know more about your game than you do. It's all just a delicate balance.' "
end of quotes
So Schaefer admits there is a delicate sort of manipulation going on to get core RPG gamers to spend money on an MMO. This is what Asian MMO companies are very good at: manipulation. I've witnessed all the very sneaky tactics they use. Through social manipulation (staffers posing as players in the game and on forums), or through trickery, or direct controls, a corporation like Perfect World will do this to reach their monetary goals.
They seem to have initially wanted to do an MMO. They released the original Torchlight as a sample of what they could do to prove to MMO corporations that they had a worthy project. Then they seemed to backtrack on the MMO idea with Torchlight II (was it deception, or genuine misgivings?), and are finally back on track to produce an MMO.
Part of it is most likely fear of this happening again:
This is probably what drives them to keep good relations with a larger partner and therefore adopt anything that larger partner favors.
Now they have said on Discord and past interviews that they keep the ability to decide what kind of payment models are chosen.
So this "delicate balance" is something they continue to believe in as a possibility otherwise Frontiers wouldn't be such a drive for them to develop.
This clearly reveals their intent on taking the franchise towards a MMO stage.
I read this as they are self aware of the unavoidable problems this will present as it divides some of the Torchlight players away while retaining those who:
1: Enjoy anything released that is Torchlight.
or
2: Are willing to see "if" this MMO is worth it.
These are the kind of players that Echtra and Perfect World ultimately need for Frontiers to succeed.
Meanwhile, The TL2 Community is indirectly contributing to this MMO since TL2's Ip is basically owned by Perfect World.
An admission that not all players will pay therefore won't contribute to the business.
They will have to get the "other" players who don't consider- or don't care about these details to make the difference.
And in the end... It's in their "User Agreement" to access their product by their rules and payment systems.
As long as players understand that Frontiers is "not" TL2's payment model.
I equally don't like micro payments from smartphone games yet we (those of us who prefer to only pay once for game access) are clearly not their target customers either.
As for the questionable tactics well Echtra better keep their hands clean for the sake of their business.
If Perfect World steps into Frontier's decision making in the future then it won't go unnoticed.
= = =
Thing is...
I like this place. The modding, community and other stuff.
Whatever happens to Frontiers... I'll just have to wait and see how it affects TL2 either way.
Also I don't know how Perfect World sees TL2 itself in the long term. Very little direct evidence on that besides the expected hype this company has for it to be profitable for the franchise.
Now Echtra and previously Runic claimed that they make the decisions on these games.
Although there "was" that TL Mobile game officially licensed to another studio that is no longer with us.
= = =
Fortunately I learned so much from being here. There were certain Torch Modders that did so much for me and in turn I was able to help players with that info.
This isn't the only community I have in my contribution life however I do care about it's health.
= = =
The only recent Dungeon Crawler with a developer background like Runic Games that I'm aware of that hasn't gone MMO is Crate Entertainment's "Grim Dawn" although that community has a different atmosphere.