Cursed Daggers or Chaos Burst for a shotgun Outlander?

[skyknight3_1]

For the record, my chart thus far is here: http://tidbi.ru/eng/outlander.php?lvl=100&fm=32&skill=000F00F0F000A00000F0F0000F0000&stat=akapakafaaaaaaaa (obviously needs to fill in more, but it's a start. It would help if I could figure out whether incorporating Rune Vault is necessary. Probably would want it to at least L10 so as to get the knockback effect. After being a bit disappointed with Storm Rush--it somehow pushes enemies TO where I'm going--I'm no longer confident that Burning Leap could be what I want.)

The debate is basically whether I want DpS scaling (Chaos Burst) or more dependable damage reduction with some self-buffing (Cursed Daggers; I don't expect to be putting much in Focus, so the Daggers' damage scaling is out.).

For the record, Glaive Sweep is there in case enemies do come close enough to start melee fighting. (Great, now I need to choose between that and Rune Vault for my emergency escape button...)

[gakm7]

I never got all that far with an Outlander, so I can't really comment from a late-game experience standpoint, but I will say that at least 1 point into rune vault is pretty much a must for movement/evasion. I've never used cursed daggers, but I can say that chaos burst is pretty awesome... and if you are going the physical damage (strength) route, then I would recommend chaos burst instead of cursed daggers...

Just make sure to get Shotgonne Mastery... it is FANTASTIC, and would be your main life saver...

http://ralrom.github.io/tl2-calculator/?class=outlander&points=faf000f0f00000f0002f000ff00000

I always imagined making a shotgonne build something along those lines, but I just wasn't good enough with the outlander to actually implement it...

Kardfogu has a really good Shotgonne Outlander build if you have any interest in other people's builds, or would like some ideas on what is good...

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=170662841

Good luck and happy gaming!

[ADEC Inc]

Cursed Daggers is a great debuff, but you may not even need it if you can blind enemies consistently. Rapid Fire or Chaos Burst could help with that. Repulsion Hex is quite good at keeping the melee away with a good duration (and a commonly occuring bug that makes itself permanent until you die). I would leave Rune Vault at one point as its other effects are nice and all, but the entire reason for using it is to disengage.

[skyknight3_1]

Humorous part is, after trying out a shotgonne, I decided to go back to using a bow. (Why not a crossbow? Knockback is why.) As a result, the formation has changed, although I'm still taking the Chaos Burst over Cursed Daggers to heart (I just hope the Poisoned debuff applies often enough...):

http://tidbi.ru/eng/outlander.php?lvl=100&fm=32&skill=0FF000FF000000F000F0F0000F0F00&stat=akapakafaaaaaaaa

(It's over by three points because I'm using the Unearthed Arcana mod, which adds three fame levels. How fortunate that 135 is a multiple of 15...)

Rune Vault gets maximized since I no longer have a shotgonne to inflict blind with basic attacks/Venomous Hail/Chaos Burst. Although I've found that using RV sometimes leaves the enemies offscreen...a mild nuisance, really. More importantly, I've noticed that sometimes you're in a position where RV doesn't really give you much of a backwards leap, if at all (at least the goons are still going to be blinded and knocked back). It's making me consider if Glaive Sweep, Repulsion Hex, Vortex Hex (poison!), or even Burning Leap might be better disengage options (okay, GS and VH are reverse disengages, but the point remains.). Might have to take Bramble Wall into consideration to figure out which of the five is the best distance setter.

EDIT: Okay, scratch Vortex Hex. I forgot that it can only grab three or five foes at a time.

[ZeFF]

melee class is only class i love and play
but....had to play Chaos burst shotgut outlander either.... :D


PS: mellee zerker is also amazing range class either.
not wolfpack zerker ..... critical hit "storm hatchet" zerker is the real deal too.

[steffire3]

Originally posted by skyknight3_1:

Humorous part is, after trying out a shotgonne, I decided to go back to using a bow. (Why not a crossbow? Knockback is why.) As a result, the formation has changed, although I'm still taking the Chaos Burst over Cursed Daggers to heart (I just hope the Poisoned debuff applies often enough...):

http://tidbi.ru/eng/outlander.php?lvl=100&fm=32&skill=0FF000FF000000F000F0F0000F0F00&stat=akapakafaaaaaaaa

(It's over by three points because I'm using the Unearthed Arcana mod, which adds three fame levels. How fortunate that 135 is a multiple of 15...)

Rune Vault gets maximized since I no longer have a shotgonne to inflict blind with basic attacks/Venomous Hail/Chaos Burst. Although I've found that using RV sometimes leaves the enemies offscreen...a mild nuisance, really. More importantly, I've noticed that sometimes you're in a position where RV doesn't really give you much of a backwards leap, if at all (at least the goons are still going to be blinded and knocked back). It's making me consider if Glaive Sweep, Repulsion Hex, Vortex Hex (poison!), or even Burning Leap might be better disengage options (okay, GS and VH are reverse disengages, but the point remains.). Might have to take Bramble Wall into consideration to figure out which of the five is the best distance setter.

EDIT: Okay, scratch Vortex Hex. I forgot that it can only grab three or five foes at a time.

Many builds can be used effectively and I myself love to play various mixes for diversity.

However if considering safety then I have to point out a few things that I felt while using these skills against Elite 120 Level foes (especially if Hardcore mode is enabled):

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Vortex Hex:

Is amazing for end game survival because while it only draws a few foes nevertheless those are targets that can no longer offer any Melee or Swarm threat and they are completely open for pure destruction from other Skill Attacks especially area, time or range based ones.

Use it like a small prison that can lockdown a corner of the screen and even use it like a wall when running away and foes will get trapped on the chase.

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Glaive Sweep:

It's important to remember that it only reaches out for 4 or 5.5 meters which is not big enough against swarms (looking at "Act 3 Side Quest: Grom's Arena"!) and the other issue is that it's a Melee based style which can only help an Outlander when hits are taken if there is already 75% maxed All Damage Taken reduced and Dodge Chance.

It's good to push a foe back however it has none of the benefits from Berserker Heals or Engineer Defenses to make it great for survival against crowds unless supported by Gear (Outlanders are sadly lacking in viable Skill Tree Melee builds).

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Shadowmantle:

Can save against missiles especially at "Rank 15" however it relies on being hit which is still a decent reason to use it although risky.

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Burning Leap:

Can only move in the "Facing" direction (almost reverse problem of Rune Vault) and has a delayed time before regaining control and offers no defense when hit multiple times before control is regained so it's risky in a swarm room.

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Bramble Wall:

Only good at range with "Rain" Skills or to isolate foes from afar and to cut the screen in half when fighting Melee and reducing hunters from swarming the escape route.

However it also gets in the way of the User's own Melee or Grounded Range Skills from the opposite side until destroyed and if any section is destroyed then the wall is compromised from keeping intruders out until reset ideally from a retreated position.

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The Outlander skills and combat are very sensitive regarding "position and control".

Rune Vault,
Chaos Burst
and Venom Hail

are great staples and the other skills can work well as long as the User knows how to wield their unique traits when active.

[skyknight3_1]

Just to make sure about Burning Leap, are we sure it's facing-only? I ask because I tried out Storm Burst again, and that one's definitely free direction, despite the descriptor saying "forward". Unfortunately, I don't have an Outlander advanced enough to test out Burning Leap with.

I'll admit that with Glaive Sweep, I was thinking in terms of knocking back and stunning everything nearby, then manually running out through the space I'd just created. Still, it's irritating that there's only one other stun skill in their repertoire, Sandstorm (and that one only stuns for ONE second).

[steffire3]

Originally posted by skyknight3_1:

Just to make sure about Burning Leap, are we sure it's facing-only? I ask because I tried out Storm Burst again, and that one's definitely free direction, despite the descriptor saying "forward". Unfortunately, I don't have an Outlander advanced enough to test out Burning Leap with.

I'll admit that with Glaive Sweep, I was thinking in terms of knocking back and stunning everything nearby, then manually running out through the space I'd just created. Still, it's irritating that there's only one other stun skill in their repertoire, Sandstorm (and that one only stuns for ONE second).

I agree that Outlanders could use a few more control skills to pin foes than was provided by Runic.

"Forward" or "backward" is actually just the direction the character faces afterwards since "Rune Vault" can be made to back out in any opposite direction from the point clicked (any direction).

"Burning Leap" travels far and the foe will have to be clicked at some point unless "Venom Hail" is used in which case it's fine.