Mechazor : Dying Wish? instead of opening gambit?

[Lord Knightmarez]

Mechazor mechs used to have 'opening gambit' to trigger the 20% mechazor build.
It was a mid-tier deck, but was great for new players to get their foot in the game , have a simple plan, and do fairly well. It was also compatible with each of the 6 factions and had no real preference.

Changing the mechs to trigger on dying doesn't 'feel' right. they were ment to be a power-ranger style team, not a weird sacrifice ritual.

It also makes mechazor decks far weaker, as the opening gambit builds were already slow to trigger.

Dying wish makes mechazor trash-tier, instead of mid-tier.

Also : it seems like dying wish means that mechazor is firmly an abyssian deck, and the other 5 factions are silly for even trying to play mechazor.

That wasn't the point of mechazor to begin with, given it was there to help newer players no matter what race they picked.

please fix, thank you devs

<3 dueylst.

Suggestion : perhaps use 5 different triggers?

for example

One could have dying wish.
one could have opening gambit
one could have card replace
one could have 'when a spell is cast'
one could have 'damage enemy unit'

That would be fun and interesting. and not exclusively promote abyssian mechazor.

I'm now going to play abyssian mechazor and come back here with my results.

[Overlord Byron]

Changing the mechs to trigger on dying doesn't 'feel' right. they were ment to be a power-ranger style team, not a weird sacrifice ritual.

Doesn't dying wish only make more sense in this context? You can't "form up" if you're still on the board. The logic is that the smaller robots get into the fight, can't win, and thus form up into Mechazor, which is what happens in a lot of mecha shows.

[Mister Lister the Sister Fister]

its not a trash tier deck. dying wish is just the best way to balance that deck. it can be played around with dispells and such. and you can better count the enemies number to mechazor.

[HighLanderPony]

Maybe you're right but that'd break one of the current, pretty cool puzzles.

[Lord Knightmarez]

Helm of Mechazor
Dying wish : Mechazor progress by 20%

Wings of mechazor
Opening Gambit : Mechazor progress by 20%

Sword of Mechazor
If this minion deals damage to an enemy minion : Mechazor progress by 20%

Cannon of mechazor
If this unit deals damage to enemy general : Mechazor progress by 20%

Chest of mechazor
The first time a spell is cast in your turn : Mechazor progress by 20%

Interesting 'puzzle'.
Every faction equally capable of casting mechazor.
Still difficult to achieve, but not too hard.

[KlausKerner]

it's not a bad idea I have to say, the specifics could be different but the general idea is good

[xil_Redwolf]

"it was there to help newer players" what kinda bs lie is this? If you are a new player first off you don't know about mecha-rush, second off once you know of mecha-rush you don't have the cards for mecha-rush given to you as part of starter deck, third off you would have to go out of your way to get the spirit to create the deck denying you the spirit to use on other cards for an actual deck, and fourthly the only people running mecha-rush I assure you are not the new players, but people trying spam rush through rank till they hit at least gold so they can easily beat the new players without having to make an actual build or put some work in to play the game.

What kinda mad world are you living in that you would say a build that requires going out of your way, is not part of the standard deck, requires literally just sitting back and by turn 4 will get you a card that can only really be countered through a dispel which new players are not going to be aware of or probably even have in their deck comp, is there for new players?

[Bone Daddy]

Originally posted by xil_Redwolf:

"it was there to help newer players" what kinda bs lie is this? If you are a new player first off you don't know about mecha-rush,

One read of their effect tells you immediately that is building up to a big minion.

Originally posted by xil_Redwolf:

second off once you know of mecha-rush you don't have the cards for mecha-rush given to you as part of starter deck

most if not all starter decks have. Dispels and transforms in faction decks and even dispel neutrals from the start.

Originally posted by xil_Redwolf:

third off you would have to go out of your way to get the spirit to create the deck denying you the spirit to use on other cards for an actual deck, and fourthly the only people running mecha-rush I assure you are not the new players but people trying spam rush through rank till they hit at least gold so they can easily beat the new players without having to make an actual build or put some work in to play the game.
No actual factual statements here, just defensive arguments from someone that got mad for having the truth said?

Originally posted by xil_Redwolf:

What kinda mad world are you living in that you would say a build that requires going out of your way, is not part of the standard deck, requires literally just sitting back and by turn 4 will get you a card that can only really be countered through a dispel which new players are not going to be aware of or probably even have in their deck comp, is there for new playe

Again, everyone has some access to dispels, and you can only really be right if you are talking about someone that has never touched, heard or smelt a TCG/CCG before, if one has played any before, Duelyst is by no means a hard game to get into, in fact I'd rank it pretty beginner friendly.

[xil_Redwolf]

Originally posted by Czin:

Originally posted by xil_Redwolf:

"it was there to help newer players" what kinda bs lie is this? If you are a new player first off you don't know about mecha-rush,

One read of their effect tells you immediately that is building up to a big minion.

The only way you will even read the card descript is if you see the card; the only way you are going to see the card is when you either play against the card, get in from an orb, or when if you are going deep into the grind fest of spirit grinding and looking at every card possible and then you have to make the conscious decision to skip over your main faction to get a set of neutral cards. This is not what a new player does. This is what an experienced player does. A new player is going to go into the game with the starter decks and face off against people with full decks. Just go read the forums and you find several discussions of new players asking what are they supposed to do to beat these odds and being given the same advice by all of us. Pick a faction, get to 10 with all the factions against ai, disenchant the factions you aren't playing, use the spirit to get the common meta neutrals and a few key faction cards. A new player is not playing mecha-rush. A new player is coming in and getting destroyed by the ranking system and either leaving the game after only a handful of hours or enjoying the strategic part of the game that affords an inexperienced player to beat a better designed deck and sticking around. Which Mecha just doesn't play with. Mecha is play this card down wherever just to get the effect, next turn try to play two down wherever because it doesn't matter positioning, it doesn't matter if they do damage or stay on the field or destroy enemy minion, it only matter that its down to rush mecha before there's anything that can be done about it.

Originally posted by xil_Redwolf:

second off once you know of mecha-rush you don't have the cards for mecha-rush given to you as part of starter deck

most if not all starter decks have. Dispels and transforms in faction decks and even dispel neutrals from the start.

incorrect, like you can literally open up the game and look at the starting cards and decks and see this is false. Only Vanar and Ventruvian have dispel. No other faction have dispel. And none of the dispel neutrals are available form the start. You can literally just open the game and see this. Why would you even write this when it's literally right there. The reason is because you didn't know. The reason is because you played long enough to know these are essential and so of course they must be available. The reason is because you are not a new player.

[xil_Redwolf]

Originally posted by xil_Redwolf:

third off you would have to go out of your way to get the spirit to create the deck denying you the spirit to use on other cards for an actual deck, and fourthly the only people running mecha-rush I assure you are not the new players but people trying spam rush through rank till they hit at least gold so they can easily beat the new players without having to make an actual build or put some work in to play the game.
"No actual factual statements here"

I guess it's not a fact that you craft cards with spirit or that you have to consciously decide to craft a card and that you only have limited spirit to use to craft cards. I guess it's not a fact that you see the same names from the OG and know their actual rankings just rushing through lower ranks with a mecha-rush build that they have set off to the side before they switch to their main build. I guess its not a fact that you can LITERALLY go look at these things yourself but choose to just sit here trying to defend a stupid idea left in this third version of Duelyst remake that is trying to bring back Duelyst to the mainstream despite Duelyst still being around for far far longer and they are going to get it killed again because they make decisions that are not new player friendly. Maybe that will change. Maybe they'll wisen up. But trying to claim that new players are playing mecha-rush before even knowing about it, or that in anyway that I would be upset to losing, is just poor. I don't play against mecha. I don't lose against it. I laugh emote and concede. Get me to the next game that actually requires playing the game. I'm not going to use my time and sit there playing zerg rush or force a dispel into a deck just to dispel mechazor and have the other person concede because that was their whole play strategy. It isn't fun.

[xil_Redwolf]

Again, everyone has some access to dispels, and you can only really be right if you are talking about someone that has never touched, heard or smelt a TCG/CCG before, if one has played any before, Duelyst is by no means a hard game to get into, in fact I'd rank it pretty beginner friendly.

You are correct everyone has access to them. Not from the start unless you play either those two factions, but yes, there are a handful of dispels. You have to make the decision to put them in the deck and have to obtain them first, but yes they are there. Once you get them. Which is not a new player. This whole thing is about new players. The only way the game lives, is with new players. This is true for any game with an online function. Because eventually the money dries up. You need to either keep an influx of new players or offer something current/old players are willing to pay for to keep a good cash flow going to keep servers up. Duelyst is not a hard game to get into, I agree. But you have to want to stay and keep playing. It is not beginner friendly. No matter if you've sat there and played other TCG's before and this one is more so than others. The fact that a new player has no choice but to go against fully operational decks or Mecha for their first match because of the ranking system, is not beginner friendly. Duelyst has always had problems, but if the dev team for this version are really trying to remake and bring it back from the start and encourage a growing player base since they are the lucky ones who got the rights to have it on Steam, then the only way it will survive is if it encourages more play from new players. Putting 3 hours into the game and then never picking it up again kills the game. It's great on release, but it's a death sentence for longevity. There's plenty of other things that need to be fixed or patched, but I'm not gonna sit here and read that mecha-rush was designed and included for new players and not scoff at how wrong that statement is when forums show a different story, the game shows a different story, and basic sense on how different it plays compared to the entirety of the game shows that it is not designed for new players to have a decent deck while learning the game. Because you don't learn the game by playing it.

[Lord Knightmarez]

walls of text are good, but 5 mechazor parts with each required to do a 'slightly different thing' is better.
Why?
well, to understand that you have to take in a big breath. close your eyes, and sing with all your soul.

" MECHAAAAAAAAAAAZOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOR!!!!!!! "