Batman: Arkham City GOTY

Batman: Arkham City GOTY

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Akizaria 18 ENE 2015 a las 11:51
[SPOILERS] Possible Plot Hole?
The Joker tells Batman that his blood has been shipped to hospitals in Gotham, poisoning the patients, the only cure to said poison being the cure manufactured by Fries. This cure required Ra's al Ghul's blood, and Batman only took enough for Fries to make two vials, both of which were smashed and their contents lost. In this case, wouldn't loads of people have died in Gotham hospitals, as they didn't have any of Ra's al Ghul's blood to make more antidote?

Is there an answer to this, or is this actually a massive plot hole?
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Kawalorn 25 ENE 2015 a las 13:41 
Publicado originalmente por Buck:
Now, with all that said, If there was one thing about the story that bothered me it's --- Exactly WHEN did Harley give the cure to Joker? and WHY didn't he take it as soon as he got it?!?

Perhaps Harley got attacked on the way before delivering the cure. She was tied up in the Steel Mill so it probbably was her fault in some way.
Última edición por Kawalorn; 25 ENE 2015 a las 13:42
Akizaria 26 ENE 2015 a las 9:15 
Publicado originalmente por Kawalorn:
Publicado originalmente por Buck:
Now, with all that said, If there was one thing about the story that bothered me it's --- Exactly WHEN did Harley give the cure to Joker? and WHY didn't he take it as soon as he got it?!?

Perhaps Harley got attacked on the way before delivering the cure. She was tied up in the Steel Mill so it probbably was her fault in some way.

She was stopped by Talia al Ghul, who then tries to give Batman the cure later.
Última edición por Akizaria; 26 ENE 2015 a las 9:15
Orge Lambart 26 ENE 2015 a las 13:01 
It's obvious the people the Joker poisoned died. Batman gave his blood to Robin prior to him getting cured. So that blood was used to try and find a cure, but they wouldn't have been able to find a cure, the cure that Fries discovered wouldn't survive long enough to save anyone without Ghul's blood, which Batman only took enough to make the two vials, one of which got smashed, the other of which Batman used half of to cure himself and then got smashed.

Even if you assume Batman's blood contained the agent they needed to make more of the cure that is never stated anywhere. I think the plot hole isn't a hole at all, it's just all those people died. Which probably added to why Batman was kind of down in the dumps during Harley's Revenge. Even having Gorden question Robin about how Batman was doing.

The game was clearly pretty dark, especially with all the people who died during protocol 10, even if they were criminals Batman wanted to save them.
Última edición por Orge Lambart; 26 ENE 2015 a las 13:04
Akizaria 26 ENE 2015 a las 13:11 
That's possible, I suppose, but dark as the Arkham games may be -personally, I love them for it-, I don't think hundreds of innocent people dying would be something that a) Batman wouldn't think about beyond mentioning it once to Robin and b) wouldn't be mentioned at all in Harley Quinn's revenge.

This would, again, I think, be a theory that Arkham Knight could clarify.
Orge Lambart 26 ENE 2015 a las 13:14 
Publicado originalmente por Shadowwolf414:
That's possible, I suppose, but dark as the Arkham games may be -personally, I love them for it-, I don't think hundreds of innocent people dying would be something that a) Batman wouldn't think about beyond mentioning it once to Robin and b) wouldn't be mentioned at all in Harley Quinn's revenge.

This would, again, I think, be a theory that Arkham Knight could clarify.

it's just one of those things that isn't brought up again. I can't see any way the people could have survived, Fries made it pretty clear he would need years and years of research to come up with a cure and Fries is supposed to be oe of the top scientist in the country.

I don't know what the people at Wayne Tech would have done that Fries didn't already do. It's just one of those unfortunate things that isn't talked about in detail...
Akizaria 26 ENE 2015 a las 14:00 
It looks to me as if they needed a reason for Batman to help the Joker after saying that he was fine with them both dying, that was, after it had served it's use, forgotten.

Other solutions, it looks like, are:
-All the people died
-Joker was lying (like in Arkham Asylum about the bombs in Gotham, although Batman did pickup up on that (Plus, that does seem quite a weak way to fill a plot hole))
-They somehow managed to get hold of more of Ra's Al Ghul's blood (this doesn't seem likely at all)
-They somehow managed to cure them some other way (Like some of the chemical still being in Batman's blood)
-Becuase Batman

So, looking at it that way, it does appear that all of the people dying is one of the more explainable theories, but I still think it should be something wrapped up by Arkham Knight, as hundreds of innocent people dying does seem incredibly bleak, even by Arkham standards...
Orge Lambart 26 ENE 2015 a las 14:03 
one of your solutions doesn't work because later on Oracle confirms that Joker did in fact poison thousands of people. So they were really poisoned, I'm thinking it looks more and more like the people died...
Buck 26 ENE 2015 a las 15:28 
Publicado originalmente por Orge Lambart:
Fries made it pretty clear he would need years and years of research to come up with a cure and Fries is supposed to be oe of the top scientist in the country.

He said that "making the cure is easy", what he needed was a restorative enzyme to stablize it because it broke down too quickly.

Batman - "What if i told you I know a man who has been exposed to that enzyme for centuries?"
Freeze - "What man?"
Batman - "His name is Ra's Al Ghul."
Freeze - "Bring him to me. All I need is a sample of his blood. It is your only hope."

I don't know what the people at Wayne Tech would have done that Fries didn't already do. It's just one of those unfortunate things that isn't talked about in detail...

Given that same sample (from Batman's own blood this time) they (Alfred and Lucius) could have easily synthesized and mass produced the cure themselves quite easily too.
Orge Lambart 26 ENE 2015 a las 16:40 
Publicado originalmente por Buck:
Publicado originalmente por Orge Lambart:
Fries made it pretty clear he would need years and years of research to come up with a cure and Fries is supposed to be oe of the top scientist in the country.

He said that "making the cure is easy", what he needed was a restorative enzyme to stablize it because it broke down too quickly.

Batman - "What if i told you I know a man who has been exposed to that enzyme for centuries?"
Freeze - "What man?"
Batman - "His name is Ra's Al Ghul."
Freeze - "Bring him to me. All I need is a sample of his blood. It is your only hope."

I don't know what the people at Wayne Tech would have done that Fries didn't already do. It's just one of those unfortunate things that isn't talked about in detail...

Given that same sample (from Batman's own blood this time) they (Alfred and Lucius) could have easily synthesized and mass produced the cure themselves quite easily too.

I don't think that would have worked from such a small sample. I don't think he could have taken some of Ra's blood and made his blood contain what was needed. Ra's blood only contained it because he had been getting exposed to it for centuries... So it soaked into his blood, Batman had a one time influx of Ra's blood.
Última edición por Orge Lambart; 26 ENE 2015 a las 16:41
Buck 26 ENE 2015 a las 20:01 
Publicado originalmente por Orge Lambart:
I don't think that would have worked from such a small sample.

I don't see why not.

[quote\I don't think he could have taken some of Ra's blood and made his blood contain what was needed. Ra's blood only contained it because he had been getting exposed to it for centuries... So it soaked into his blood, Batman had a one time influx of Ra's blood. [/quote]

Which would still be in Batman's blood ,at least in the short term, but certainly long enough that another sample could have been attained from him.

They could have theoretically gotten further samples elsewhere too, as I already suggested.
Akizaria 27 ENE 2015 a las 8:05 
Publicado originalmente por Buck:
I don't see why not.

Becuase the sample that Batman took was, I believe, only the 'Blood of the Demon' chemical, whereas a full cure requires it to be bonded to human DNA, which has only occured, as far as we know, in Ra's al Ghul's blood. This same reason applies to the idea that they could use other pits: the chemical needs to be bonded to human DNA, or it won't work.
Última edición por Akizaria; 27 ENE 2015 a las 8:05
Orge Lambart 27 ENE 2015 a las 8:21 
yes which is why i think they all died
Buck 27 ENE 2015 a las 11:01 
Publicado originalmente por Shadowwolf414:
Becuase the sample that Batman took was, I believe, only the 'Blood of the Demon' chemical, whereas a full cure requires it to be bonded to human DNA, which has only occured, as far as we know, in Ra's al Ghul's blood. This same reason applies to the idea that they could use other pits: the chemical needs to be bonded to human DNA, or it won't work.

Interesting points, but is there really any reason to believe that the sample in Batman's blood, which was obtained directly from Ra's wouldn't have sufficed otherwise?
And remember, Ra's blood was left on the ground by the fence at the Arkham City entrance too. A fresh sample could have been obtained there.


As fun as this discussion is, I doubt we're ever really going to get any solid answers, not unless Paul Dini himself feels like writing one up (assuming he doesn't already have one written down or at least in mind).

Orge Lambart 27 ENE 2015 a las 11:58 
Publicado originalmente por Buck:
Publicado originalmente por Shadowwolf414:
Becuase the sample that Batman took was, I believe, only the 'Blood of the Demon' chemical, whereas a full cure requires it to be bonded to human DNA, which has only occured, as far as we know, in Ra's al Ghul's blood. This same reason applies to the idea that they could use other pits: the chemical needs to be bonded to human DNA, or it won't work.

Interesting points, but is there really any reason to believe that the sample in Batman's blood, which was obtained directly from Ra's wouldn't have sufficed otherwise?
And remember, Ra's blood was left on the ground by the fence at the Arkham City entrance too. A fresh sample could have been obtained there.


As fun as this discussion is, I doubt we're ever really going to get any solid answers, not unless Paul Dini himself feels like writing one up (assuming he doesn't already have one written down or at least in mind).

to make the antodote they would have had to thin out Ra's blood, it's not like just getting his blood inside Batman's body would transform batman's blood into Ra's.

Even if they could somehow manage to get more of Ra's blood which wouldn't have been able to happen in enough time ot save the people, they couldn't have gotten enough to actually save the 2000 or more people who got infected with Joker's tainted blood..

Akizaria 27 ENE 2015 a las 11:59 
Hadn't thought of the blood spatter actually, that could work.

And yeah, I hope this is something Arkham Knight at least mentions, but I wouldn't be too surprised if it just went overlooked.

But as it is, if the build up to Arkham Knight has proven anything, it's that fan theories are really cool, so discussions like this (which has turned up alot of ideas that never even occured to me) are, as you say, really fun.
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Publicado el: 18 ENE 2015 a las 11:51
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