I love this game, very much, but:

[Kotowski]

1) Why no gang fights for territory influence? Something like Cobblepot's men fighting with two-face men? It was able to make a better game experience.



2) Why (spoiler) protocol 10 means to kill inmates by helicopter rockets? Its so stupid and so ineffective! mean that inmates can find cover in sewerage, low floors and basements..



3) Spoiler: batmans beloved girl was killed. And in the end he hold in his hands dead Joker. Why? Batman and J had some kind of love relations? Tolerance, hate it. That was joke, but why he choose Joker instead of lady he love?



Just few things I cant accept. What do you think about it? Have you something to add?

[Kotowski]

The only guys who know about protocol 10 are tyger security and H. Strange. More chance to know about it from them neither ask everyone in Arkham City.

[Valden21]

Answer to 1: For the most part, the territories of the different gangs are already in place. Joker's gang is based around Amusement Mile and the Sionis Steel Mill, Two-Face's men are in Park Row, and Penguin's got the Museum and Bowery. They tend to not go outside those areas, so there's really no need to fight amongst themselves and thus make things easier for Strange.

Answer to 2: None of the gangs know what Protocol 10 actually is. They hear it being mentioned, but that's it. Strange and the TYGER guards are the only ones in the know as to what it is.

Answer to 3: Any death, and I do mean ANY death, means that Batman has failed. The guy goes out of his way to bring criminals in alive, even when it means more problems for him, because he believes he doesn't have the authority to decide their fate. Besides, the fact that he never kills is one of the major mental factors keeping him from becoming a criminal himself. As for Talia (his girl), she wanted him to take the cure for himself. The cure can't do anything for her, and if she takes it, Batman dies. Talia's in love with him, so his death is the LAST thing she wants.

[Sazzouu]

I guess you missed one big detail: This games story takes place within one single night. From the beginning, where Bruce Wayne gets imprisoned until you finally stop Protocol 10 and defeat the Joker only like 10-12 hours are passing by.
I guess you want to ask "Whats the matter?"... The matter of this is that territory fights like those you mention in 1) would be planned and timed and even if these gangs had nothing to do during the storyline it would take way more than 10-12 hours to do so.
All three gangs are up for some stuff in Arkham City and they are loaded with work so basically they don't have any time to fight for territories.


And Protocol 10 doesn't mean killing these inmate by rockets.. it just says killing inmates; thats it. It was TYGERs decision to do this by shooting rockets at them because the council of GC was given fake informations about the inmates that their security been overrun and the inmates got their hands on TYGER weaponary. That gave them the permissions to do what ever it takes to wipe them out. So they decided to do it from a safe distance with a "death from above"-move.
But yeah you are right about the ineffectiveness.


It had some symbolics for the fanbase. Because with his last move (by dropping the cure so joker is left to die) he decided to kill the Joker and that is basically deciding to kill himself since he always had only one simple rule: never killing anybody. Sure leaving his beloved girl behind was kinda weird but digging deep enough and you will find more than just dirt ;)

[Valden21]

Originally posted by BeatZ:

I guess you missed one big detail: This games story takes place within one single night. From the beginning, where Bruce Wayne gets imprisoned until you finally stop Protocol 10 and defeat the Joker only like 10-12 hours are passing by.
I guess you want to ask "Whats the matter?"... The matter of this is that territory fights like those you mention in 1) would be planned and timed and even if these gangs had nothing to do during the storyline it would take way more than 10-12 hours to do so.
All three gangs are up for some stuff in Arkham City and they are loaded with work so basically they don't have any time to fight for territories.


And Protocol 10 doesn't mean killing these inmate by rockets.. it just says killing inmates; thats it. It was TYGERs decision to do this by shooting rockets at them because the council of GC was given fake informations about the inmates that their security been overrun and the inmates got their hands on TYGER weaponary. That gave them the permissions to do what ever it takes to wipe them out. So they decided to do it from a safe distance with a "death from above"-move.
But yeah you are right about the ineffectiveness.


It had some symbolics for the fanbase. Because with his last move (by dropping the cure so joker is left to die) he decided to kill the Joker and that is basically deciding to kill himself since he always had only one simple rule: never killing anybody. Sure leaving his beloved girl behind was kinda weird but digging deep enough and you will find more than just dirt ;)

Actually, I think you're misinterpreting that cutscene. Batman drops the cure because Joker attacks him, and the cure getting dropped is an accident. The vial held two doses, and Batman had planned to only drink his one dose, leaving enough for Joker. If I recall correctly, Batman says something to that effect.

[Kotowski]

I meant that it’s weird that batman go for villains and other characters to know what protocol 10 means. It could be more logical to “ask” (or try to ask) tyger guys, crack their servers and computers or even go find it out from main villain — Hugo Strange.

[Kotowski]

Because others can’t know what it is.

[Valden21]

Originally posted by Kotowski:

I meant that it’s weird that batman go for villains and other characters to know what protocol 10 means. It could be more logical to “ask” (or try to ask) tyger guys, crack their servers and computers or even go find it out from main villain — Hugo Strange.

Interrogating a TYGER guard would be a waste of time, as every single one of them is brainwashed to be loyal to Strange. Batman knows that, as he was keeping as eye on Arkham City's construction and the way that Sharp (who's also brainwashed) was behaving throughout the whole thing. He already knows that Protocol 10 is part of Strange's plans, but he thinks that Joker might be in league with Strange, due to Joker's activities in the early part of the game. Besides, Batman's also a detective, so he's using those methods to figure out what's going on.

Also, Batman needs Mr Freeze's help, as Mr. Freeze has been working on the cure. However, Penguin kidnapped Freeze and is holding him in the museum, so busting him out of there is a major priority for Batman. Learning what protocol 10 is and stopping it is still Batman's most important mission in the game, but that means nothing if Batman dies because he couldn't get the cure in time. Therefore, Batman NEEDS to find that cure, as his life isn't the only one in danger. He doesn't care if Arkham City becomes his grave, but he DOES care about the innocents who'll die as a consequence of his own death. Remember, Joker's also been anonymously donating his blood to various hospitals in Gotham, so whoever else gets that blood is going to be poisoned as well.

[Kotowski]

Thats a very good explanation. Thanks.

[Sazzouu]

Back into discussions... had a lot of stuff in real life since my last comment xD

Originally posted by Valden21:

Actually, I think you're misinterpreting that cutscene. Batman drops the cure because Joker attacks him, and the cure getting dropped is an accident. The vial held two doses, and Batman had planned to only drink his one dose, leaving enough for Joker. If I recall correctly, Batman says something to that effect.

Well you are partially right.
Yes it was an accident that he dropped the vial. But this is not the point to look at.
Let me dig into it:
Batman always used to be that one guy that tries to save every individual, no matter what they did, what they plan or what they might be up to in the future. He always was the saviour.
Joker on the other hand was that bad guy. Killing people, generating chaos and stuff like that. BUT he had his intentions for everything he did. In the Arkham-verse Joker always talks about humanity and how broken they are and actually no one does anything about it. There is some sort of a scheme during his acts of cruelty but lets cut things off right here...

So you have one guy trying to guard everyone, no matter who no matter how.
And you have the other guy being that renegade psychopath...
It somewhat reminds me of something...
https://www.pinterest.de/pin/825143962951862861
This painting had it's appearance in this game...
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1695185083
it was right at the beginning of this game and guess what it also was the ending of everything...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7bREa3Xcijc

Now let me clearify what I'm trying to say here:
The painting is an illustration of "Cain and Abel - Duality of Man" and the story is talking about the first two childs of Adam and Eve. Cain was a farmer and Abel was known as a shepard. While Cain could only sacrifice materialistic things, abel sacrificed his time on earth to guard gods creations so god favoured Abel above Cain. Cain one day decided to kill his brother but god of course was not amused about it. He exiled him to a "life of wandering".
So now the Situation in our heads: Joker = Cain while Batman = Abel... right?

Ok what has this to do with this game?
In the end Joker attacked Batman with a clear intention of killing him. He failed miserably so it was his death sentence. (well in my opinion Batman could still have saved him but lets move on)
Batman normaly gets some sort of a mental melt-down whenever he is not fast / strong / smart enough to save someone .Get through all the games and have an eye on it and you will see what I mean.
But not this time. Joker dies infront of him and he has nothing but cold words left for him; understandable but not Batmans manner.

Now here is the deal:
I think this painting, the story and all the stuff has a reason for being present in this game. It wants to support the on going "revolution" inside of batman. If you compare the Batman in Arkham Origins with the one in Arkham Knight you will see a huge difference between their mentality. In the end of Arkham City it was not Joker dying (well actually it was but), it was Batman. From that point on he never was the same again. He became the renagade knight. He became Cain, meant to wander in the exile named Gotham City.

Of course it could be somewhat of a Fanfiction / Fandom dream of a stroy but it blends perfectly with the end of Arkham Knight later on.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2pI-jPNH0Go
here is some sort of a rundown of the things I just mentioned plus some extras.
Trust me it's worth watching ;)

[Kotowski]

Your theory is on the right direction. But as I think devs decided not to make this game deeper, I mean their batman is "super stone good guy" .

So yes – his character changed (I mean his basic rules changed) – he didn't save main villain of the game – Ras al Ghul. As we know he try to save everyone he can.

I also do not feel and experience other game characters, because they are not interesting to me, not much time passed to get acquainted closer with them.
Sorry for my english.

Why Game of Thrones was so popular (and still is)? Because characters change during the seasons (best example is Jayme Lannister), their morale, personality and even main characters can die or suffer too much. Thats why – its realistic, no wonders or pianos in the bushes like in real life, everything depends on people, not plot.

[Valden21]

My theory on Ras' al Ghul is that Batman WAS trying to save him, but that Ras' refused. Remember, Ras' is easily over 700 years old, he has a death wish, and he's been looking for a male heir to take over the League of Assassins. In his mind, Batman IS that heir, and the only thing keeping him from realizing that is his aversion to killing. Besides, Ras is dangerous enough that Batman might consider his death to be the one exception to that rule, particularly since Ras' wants to kill about 80% of humanity. Technically, Batman's already a member of the League of Assassins, and two of the people who trained him were League members at the time.

[Sazzouu]

Originally posted by Valden21:

My theory on Ras' al Ghul is that Batman WAS trying to save him, but that Ras' refused. Remember, Ras' is easily over 700 years old, he has a death wish, and he's been looking for a male heir to take over the League of Assassins. In his mind, Batman IS that heir, and the only thing keeping him from realizing that is his aversion to killing. Besides, Ras is dangerous enough that Batman might consider his death to be the one exception to that rule, particularly since Ras' wants to kill about 80% of humanity. Technically, Batman's already a member of the League of Assassins, and two of the people who trained him were League members at the time.

I would sign on that one besides Batman didn't make any exception of his rules for Ras', neither in the movies nor in this game. In the end Ras' killed himself (maybe trying to kill Batman with him because he gave up on him).

[Valden21]

In truth, it would not surprise me for a minute if a future game in the series reveals that Ras' isn't actually dead, just paralyzed. Think about it for a minute. As it's been shown multiple times in the franchise, no matter how badly he's wounded, he's back to full strength in a a few seconds if he can reach a Lazarus Pit. There's a ginormous one underneath Gotham, so if any members of the Elite Guards are still in Gotham following the game's end, the chance for their leader's revival still exists.

[Kotowski]

His body was missing. Seems like he had another revive sources.

[Raiden]

He was literally in the Season of Infamy DLC for Arkham Knight and everyone who knows about the Lazarus Pit would know he's going to end up coming back anyways.